Abortions.

Yes, but, if he was never born, we would have never known or missed him.

Simple and Clean:

Yes, but, if he was never born, we would have never known or missed him.

But how do you know that?? How do you know that subconsciously someone wouldn't miss that said 'sack of cells', and you honestly can't say that someday, even though the mother got an abortion because she didn't want a child, would know about and maybe even miss it, or the married couple that wanted a baby that never got one would know that people out there are killing their babies even though it could have been theirs and they would have given it a good life, THEY would miss it, THEY would know. I honestly see no difference between ancient Greeks/Romans leaving their babies up on hills to die because they didn't want them to abortion. There's really no difference other then the fact that a baby is older. Like the embryo the baby won't remember a thing, because babies usually don't at such a young age. I admit, there are those few things and circumstances where it may be okay and should be legal, but other then that, its just wrong. I for one wouldn't leave my baby on a hill somewhere to die, even though they wouldn't remember it, even though they were one day old... there's not much of a difference. Because every baby can grow up to be a teenager and every cell, or embryo can grow up to be a baby.

^ there is a massive difference to leaving a fully grown baby on a hill to die a long suffering death, then to abort an embryo quickly (And if done before a certain time) Painlessly.

You're kinda getting into a whole other buissness with the whole 'subcoinciously, by people who never knew about their non existance, they will be missed.'

Simple and Clean:

^ there is a massive difference to leaving a fully grown baby on a hill to die a long suffering death, then to abort an embryo quickly (And if done before a certain time) Painlessly.

You're kinda getting into a whole other buissness with the whole 'subcoinciously, by people who never knew about their non existance, they will be missed.'

im with you. the baby never had a life to begin with it has nothing to really miss or anything. its common sense. if you dont know of something you wont miss it.

like a toy. if you didnt know about the MCR action figures you dont think about it. and it isnt really a life yet. its not even a fetus

it seems a little cruel but i'd rather the baby be terminated then be brought up into a world where its unwanted. thats like cursing the child i'd spare it the grief

what about medics helping sustain life? We play God everyday helping our loved ones stay alive. Should we abandon "playing God" alltogether, the human being would probably only live to their 30s.

Oh, and it's because many people can't even begin to concieve how abortion is murder. I sure can't.

genresR4losers:

^OMG! totally on the opposite side of the argument.
you see, as an adopted kid, i know that i wasn't wanted when i was brought into this world. i guess you could call me an eternal optimist. i would rather that the baby on the hillside be found AND the BABY (not just a fetus) be allowed to live.

then again, i don't think that anyone has the right to play God when it comes to the lives of other people. NO ONE... but that's bringing religious beliefs into the arguement... which i usually try to stray away from doing.

i don't see how people could so nonchalantly say that they would kill a child rather than have it POSSIBLY have a few emotional problems later in life. seriously, being adopted isn't BAD... it's actually rather heartwarming knowing that someone loved you so much that they took you and raised you as their own. that though there was once somone who didn't want you, that there most definately IS someone who does. i don't see how that's a problem, or how people could use that as a way of justification for the murder of an innocent child.

but then again... that's just me

abortions cant be performed if the baby is a fetus we're talking about before it even has a concious mind not the aftermath. before it even really exists properly, im not saying adoption is wrong its just its unfair on the child because it can be prevented, im sure there are people out there that love them but everyone handles it different. like two people with a genetic diasease; their just cursing the kid

i am totally against abortion. the child is living so i consider it murdering. Even if it is an unplanned child you should not get an abortion. Either practice safe sex, or dont have sex at all

I think it's sort of sad everyone who comes in here trying to convince or otherwise state that abortion is murder. It makes me wonder how much research they have actually done on birth.

& & You seem to be implying that everyone who gets abortions are stupid and are having sex everywhere or something. Safe sex : things like condoms and birth control, they don't always work. They say that a radically high percent of unplanned pregnancies happened REGARDLESS of percautions taken.

like two people with a genetic diasease; their just cursing the kid

how then do you account for medical anomalies? if you're going to base decisions as seirous as this off of the chance that something MIGHT happen, personally i think that's just ridiculous. seriously, look at a genetic condition like achondroplasia for instance, look at the number of little people that give birth to people of normal stature... just cause someone has something wrong with them, is no excuse to say that they can't have children... this is their life, as well as their child's... who are you to say that the child should die just cause they're different... sorry... but that's just wrong.

^ im just saying they can spare the child. i mean...i'd hate to be confined to a wheel chair because my parents had genetics that made it almost certain i'd have something like cerebral paulsey (cantspellsorry)

my mom even told me if i had some diasease before i was born she would have aborted me. and i respect that cause she didnt want me to have to deal with something like that.

DIE! DIE! DIE!:

I think it's sort of sad everyone who comes in here trying to convince or otherwise state that abortion is murder. It makes me wonder how much research they have actually done on birth.

& & You seem to be implying that everyone who gets abortions are stupid and are having sex everywhere or something. Safe sex : things like condoms and birth control, they don't always work. They say that a radically high percent of unplanned pregnancies happened REGARDLESS of percautions taken.

I think its sort of sad that you think you know everything.


Please, tell me, becuase I would really like to know,
what makes you so much more educated then all of us?
You're basically saying all pro-lifers are idiots.
I disagree with you, but I'm not going to bash you for that
I am however going to if you're rude
like you're being.

Apparently I do know a bit more then you, because shock shock, I actually have some idea of when something is a living being instead of just a potential life. The only serious concern for a prolifer regarding fetal rights would be "Do I like the idea of millions more children being born a year at the risk of an overpopulated world"
Shocking, some people don't care

Murder is the taking of the life of another human being through the initiation of physical force. Abortion is not murder, because a fetus is not an actual human being—it is a potential human being, i.e. it is a part of the woman. The concept murder only applies to the initiation of physical force used to destroy an actual human being, such as when "pro-life" terrorists bomb abortion clinics.

A fetus is human, in the sense that it contains human DNA; however, a fetus, like an embryo, is not a human being, as it has no means of independent physiological existence (as does a baby, child, or adult). As such, it is a potential human being, just like an acorn is a potential oak tree. It contains all of the DNA of an oak tree, but it is not an oak tree

AngryMailPerson:

DIE! DIE! DIE!:

I think it's sort of sad everyone who comes in here trying to convince or otherwise state that abortion is murder. It makes me wonder how much research they have actually done on birth.

& & You seem to be implying that everyone who gets abortions are stupid and are having sex everywhere or something. Safe sex : things like condoms and birth control, they don't always work. They say that a radically high percent of unplanned pregnancies happened REGARDLESS of percautions taken.

I think its sort of sad that you think you know everything.


Please, tell me, becuase I would really like to know,
what makes you so much more educated then all of us?
You're basically saying all pro-lifers are idiots.
I disagree with you, but I'm not going to bash you for that
I am however going to if you're rude
like you're being.

She never said that pro-lifers were "idiots". She was merely being logical about the whole argument.
It all boils down to the fact that both sides of the argument, the pro-lifers vs. the pro-choicers, are both spouting propoganda of sorts, and that's why it seems like people are "attacking" you, but they're not. This is a discussion board. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, or stating another side to the argument, then it's not the place for you.

I can totally understand why, in these types of discussions, its hard to see the other side's point of view.

To some, life begins at conception, therefore, no matter what stage in pregnancy an abortion takes place, these people see it as taking a life away or preventing life from progressing. which, in the eyes of many, is murder.

To others, life doesnt begin until its an established fetus. Some people dont consider a 'sack of cells' as life yet. it has no human features or emotions at that stage, so i suppose some would think it doesnt even class as a death.

And to some, life doesnt begin til birth.


As for medical reasons for abortion. Its very hard to raise a child with disabilities, or a child that has problems that take up 100% of everything in your life.

I've just been offered tests , to see if im at risk of my baby having downs or spina bifida (think ive spelt that right). i'm not having the tests. After having a miscarriage in june, im keeping this baby no matter what. finding out if it has problems or not makes no difference to me and my bf to be honest. i personally couldnt have an abortion now, after losing a baby. but thats just me, I have good support from family, friends and my bf. Sure, if my baby does have problems its gonna be hard, especially with the child we already have, but we've got a good support network.

Some people dont have that and face it alone, so at the same time i can understand why people decide not to continue with pregnancy.

What im trying to say is that its so hard to discuss abortion. You need to look at each woman individually before making judgements. I dont think abortion is something you can generalise on.

Thats a very good point about it being legal to have an abortion, but getting 2 counts of murder for killing a pregnant women.
I suppose the government see it as a mothers choice? which makes me think about the fathers of these babies. When do they get a say in their potential childs life, or lack of?

but its the mothers choice..she didn't ask to be murdered

Hooley:

Thats a very good point about it being legal to have an abortion, but getting 2 counts of murder for killing a pregnant women.
I suppose the government see it as a mothers choice? which makes me think about the fathers of these babies. When do they get a say in their potential childs life, or lack of?

They don't deserve a say, actually. They can have one, but they don't deserve it. ^_^
Im very harsh on men and abortion. I think the bottom line is, it's not THEIR burden therefore, they shouldn't pressure the woman into anything. If the woman wants an opinion, she will ask. If the man wants a kid so bad, he should find someone willing to bare it.

As per the murders, I honestly believe that the government uses that as a way to send inamtes to death row easier. I don't think it's right.

But from the government's perspective on life, life is conciousness. If your alive before your concious, all you need to do is be a sperm or egg.

I just dislike the retards that come on here and spurr murder crap out their ass as simple as stone.
"Abortion is murder so it is bad"
Is a lot different then
"Disregarding common logic, I would never get an abortion because my standard of what a life is is rather low and I feel like killing my fetus is immoral".

In September 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years of experience, was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice," she didn't think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:



"I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who was six months pregnant. The baby's heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen. The doctor delivered the baby's body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby's body was moving. His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and inserted them into the back of the baby's head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction, like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up. Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy. It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."


But what about if the baby had been aborted at a younger age.. say 6 weeks? When the baby is this young, doctors use the Saline Method, where they inject a salty saline solution into the mother's womb. You would think it would just poison the baby, but it actually burns it to death. Even though the baby is so young, on ultrasounds of the abortion, the fetus is seen pulling away from the poison as it is injected.. obviously wanting to stay alive.(The baby is intelligent enough to move away from the pain..but the child can't escape it)