Abortions.

No. Not at all.

That would be silly. I apologise if I didn't make myself clear in my first post. What I meant was that if the woman is in a stable, non abusive or even a short relationship (so far) the man should at least know she is considering an abortion or that she's pregnant. I meant that I don't think it's fair that she should go and get rid of it without him even knowing she's pregnant in the first place. That's all. He should not have "rights" over her.

John St. John:

Faith shouldn't come into it. One persons faith isn't necessarily the same as another, therefore I don't see how faith can even come into the argument against unless it is the faith of the person having the abortion, if that makes sense ?

I'll use this example: Say that you were a person with the general mindset that murder is wrong. And then you meet a person who's religion involves human sacrifice. So you see this person take another innocent person, tie them up, and they are about to sacrifice another human being.

Now you know that murder is wrong, but you also know that this person of a certain religion believes that murder is ok when used for sacrifice. So what do you do? Do you simply watch the murder of an innocent human simply because the person doing the sacrificing does not see a problem with it?

WARNING: RANT-ESQ COMPILATION OF RANDOM IDEAS
at what point is a fetus a human. certainly not at the time of conception, the "It-could-have-been-a-life" argument seems silly to me. you could say i could have a child with my girlfriend so not doing so is preventing a life and therefor murder... thats just stupid. i mean you dont morn the death of rouge sperm cells . i really just dont think its human until it has active brain waves a beating heart. i despise using details that make us relate to a random collection of cells, for instance fingernails, hair, hearts, etc. its a way to get to weak minded individuals who have sympathy on a basis of what shares characteristics (i suppose we all do though, i hate spiders, alot) besides population control!! ;b

So what your saying is that after a heart starts beating then abortion shouldn't happen because it's then a human life? Well at the moment the legal limit for abortion (in the UK) is 24 weeks and yet a heart starts beating at 5 weeks... do you think the legal limit should be lowered?

Cigarettes And Suicide:

I'm curious about your opinion on late-term abortions (the ones that happen during the third trimester). I'm pro-choice, or pro-abortion - whatever you want to call it - and I admire your posts in this thread about abortion. So I just wanted to know what you think.

Actually, I mostly agree with xMyHeArTfElTrOmAnCex
Although the mother does carry the child on her body and it mostly impedes on her life and I do believe in her right to choose, I also believe that the father of the child should have some say. I mean, what if he wants the child, and wants to raise it and love it?
He did create the child. If he made the decision, and forced the woman to have an abortion not of her free will , we'd all be up in arms.
How is that different than her going off and having the abortion (not allowing his child to exist and not even telling him?
I do not think he should have veto rights, no, but I do think his opinion should definitely be taken under advisement, as long as he is prepared to deal with the consequences. There are many upstanding men who want children in this world. I don't think that they should have to deal with their possible child not being allowed to exist if they want the child.
It's not fair to them.
An abortion is NOT just the woman's decision, or at least it shouldn't be. Everyone involved in the aftermath, be it abortion or carrying the child to full term, should have a say.

^ It's definitely a sticky one. *Personally*, I do not believe that I could have an abortion after the 12-week mark for anything other than a serious medical condition/defect (ie, the baby is going to die in the womb or soon after birth, or my life is in danger). But, that is my own opinion, and I respect that others may feel differently. The idea of a late-term abortion for 'personal' reasons (ie, other than a life-threatening medical condition) is not something I'm comfortable with, to be honest it quite upsets me, but I still believe and strongly support an individual's right to decide what is best for them, and them alone. I understand that a woman may not be able to give up a child that she has carried for so long (ie adoption), but in those cases I kind of think, 'Now why didn't you just go have a termination in the first trimester?!'. That being said, I live in a country where terminations, although technically illegal under our state's laws, are quite easily accessible and relatively inexpensive - in other countries, it may be much more difficult to obtain and afford a termination so I suppose I understand that if you're struggling to pay for one, it might mean you have to wait until after the first trimester if you don't have the cash handy.
It kind of bothers me that when a baby can be born at 24 weeks' gestation and live, that it's still possible to terminate after that point for a non-medical reason, but again, I'm adamant that it is not a decision made lightly by the woman and that she has a damn good reason for doing it at that point. I just don't believe that anybody else has a right to stop a person governing their own reproduction, and sometimes a pregnancy happens despite a person's best efforts (which is why I'm trying to convince my husband to get a vasectomy, to save us the heartbreak of being put in such a difficult position where I do have to decide whether to proceed with an unexpected pregnancy or not).

Uhh.. that was long and kind of didn't make sense. So... yeah. I'm not terribly comfortable with the idea of late-term abortions but I still support a woman's right to know what is best for her and the baby she's carrying. So I still think all terminations should be legal and easily accessible, no matter what point in the pregnancy they occur.

I agree with ^ as afore mentioned I was born premature and it disturbs me that babies at the time I was born, In some countries, can still be aborted. I'm perfectly healthy (most of the time). Also thank you sikki for making what I said clear. Don't get me wrong I am pro-choice but the line has got to be drawn somewhere.

My opinion leans both ways.
If you are just messing around and get pregnant, you really shouldn't kill your baby. I mean really, if you don't want it, put it up for adoption. At least then it'll have a family and a life.
But I don't think a woman should have to give birth if she is pregnant with a child by someone who raped her. It isn't right. I mean, what if she's like, 12? Are they going to make a scared pre-teen give birth? That's not right.

TestBunny:

Are they going to make a scared pre-teen give birth? That's not right.

Yet you'd still let a scared pre teen give birth just because they got careless and make a mistake?

^ I think she's using a 12 year old as an example of a person who might become pregnant because of rape.

TestBunny:

My opinion leans both ways.
If you are just messing around and get pregnant, you really shouldn't kill your baby. I mean really, if you don't want it, put it up for adoption. At least then it'll have a family and a life.
But I don't think a woman should have to give birth if she is pregnant with a child by someone who raped her. It isn't right. I mean, what if she's like, 12? Are they going to make a scared pre-teen give birth? That's not right.

Actually alot of children who are put up for adoption aren't actualy adopted and unwanted children a good portion of the time end up turning to lives of crime. Now you can argue and bring up stories of children in foster care and so on who went on did something with their life and benefitted the community and so on. But most kids who feel unwanted do resort to criminal activities, and it's understandable thinking of how many children get lostin the system.

Honestly there's more then enough people on earth, if someone doesn't want to bring a baby into the world whatever their reasoning is, then they shouldn't be expected to still go through labor and everything. If we didn't allow abortion, people would still get them, just in an unsafe illegal enviroment. When people get desperate they go to great lengths.

And here's a thought. In Cuba under thier healthcare system if there is a sign that there's something wrong with a baby before their born, like large possibilty of the baby having downsyndrome and so on, the doctors will make the mom abort. Thoughts on this?

I disagree with abortion. Abortion is murder because the babies' heart is beating. It is alive. It may be the mother's body, but there is also another person in her body. That other person is not directly hers. She is mothering the child but she does not own it. It is murder. When a woman who is pregnant is killed it is counted as a two part murder, a murder of the woman and the baby, so then how can we let babie be killed? I agree that the woman has the choice but I disagree that it is always the right choice.

mannaquin:

I disagree with abortion. Abortion is murder because the babies' heart is beating.

After 5 weeks.

If you're going to use the argument that life starts at conception, don't use the heartbeat thing. Because it isn't accurate. Just saying.

John St. John:

Your right in that its not the right choice for everyone, but you keep saying baby, its not yet a baby, it's a featus.

It's annoying that people still often paint a mother who has an abortion as evil. As if she just decided on an abortion on a whim.

No. My mother has had 3 abortions in her life. I do not see her as evil. A thing is leaving once it has a heart beat. the fetus/baby is living once it has a heartbeat. It is a baby. It may not be stable without it's mother but it is still a living baby. and yes. Abortion isn't for everyone. Abortion often gives the mother and people around the mother psychological problems in the future.

mannaquin:

No. My mother has had 3 abortions in her life. I do not see her as evil. A thing is leaving once it has a heart beat. the fetus/baby is living once it has a heartbeat. It is a baby. It may not be stable without it's mother but it is still a living baby. and yes. Abortion isn't for everyone. Abortion often gives the mother and people around the mother psychological problems in the future.

The fact your mother has been through the trauma of 3 abortions should help yuo see some of the reasons why abortion really is the best option for some mothers. Would you rather a baby be born into a life of poverty? , or were the mother is not emotionally mature enough to take care of this baby properly or maybe doesnt even want to love with baby.before you say it yes, the child can put up for adoption, however that doesnt make it alright. Its not exactly a good environment and many kids never even get adopted.

That is true but is murder always the right option? Just because you aren't fit doesn't mean you should kill it. Let's say a mum of 3 kids thinks she doesn't want to love them anymore and isn't fit to take care fo them... Shoudl she murder them? I don't understand where your coming from. Abortion is murdering a fetus/baby. Is death really better than a living baby?