Abortions.
| Author | Message |
|---|---|
| Jenny. Moderator  Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 19720 | |
| Go fuck yourself Devil's Got Your Number  Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 37823 | mannaquin:No it's completely different. Example think of someone in a coma on lifesupport. Some family's decide to take their loved ones off of life support for varies reasons, others don't. Now think of a perfectly healthy individual who someone went up to and shot. Whats the difference? I hope that made it kind of clear. But think about it, once that baby is brought into the world, it's no longer on that life support (which is what a womb basically is) it's now that hopefully healthy individual. Many women who get an abortion end up regretting it. Abortion isn't for everyone, but some poeple get desperate and still get one. |
| John St. John Shotgun Sinner  Age: 31 Gender: Male Posts: 7145 | My Dear Delirious: Thats a good way of putting it, do we count the switching off of life support machines or even euthanasia murder? No. So why is abortion thought of as it? |
| thank fsm. In The Murder Scene  Age: 36 Gender: Female Posts: 20564 | ...Well, some do. Unless that was sarcasm, lol. |
| Go fuck yourself Devil's Got Your Number Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 37823 | ^ yes to an extend some people believe it's murder. I would go into that, but I"d probably get in trouble for going on about that here. I love how people who are so against abortion always paint the mother as so selfish. //sarcasm |
| dotdotdot Killjoy  Age: 77 Gender: Male Posts: 56 | I'm not painting the mother as selfish. And yes thank you for that, but I do think of Euthanasia as murder. Life support for me is a different story. If you are living off life support it depends on how much the person relies on life support. Sometimes life support is keeping the person's heart beating while it is in a coma or helping the body do functions as the person is awake. I just feel like with abortion, we kill the baby/fetus without giving it a chance. It isn't it's fault of the circumstances... I just think that there could be another way, but I suppose that isn't possible. |
| Go fuck yourself Devil's Got Your Number Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 37823 | ok, another example. If you've ever read the book Of Mice and Men there's apart when this guy has this really old mangy dog. The dog was always in such poor health and miserable. All these other guys were always trying to talk him into putting the dog out of it's misery. Now if you put something thats in poor health, miserable and gonna die anyways, if you really love it, wouldn't you want to put it out of its pain? I don't consider abortion as euthanasian. Yes you are taking a chance away from a fetus that never did anything except concieved. If that child was born into an enviroment where he's not wanted, what chance are you giving him then? I personally would rather have safe abortions available then people doing it themselves with knitting needles or going through labor then leaving their baby in a dumpster. Reguardless if we approve of it or not, people will get abortions, they have for thousands of years, we can't really stop it. And I wasn't directing it at mannaquin about the mothers being portrayed as selfish, I just hate how it's like that in general. |
| Wandering_Soul Jazz Hands  Age: 31 Gender: Male Posts: 303 | I completely agree with ^ If the people cannot get an abortion legally, they will do it illegally, and that could lead to much more health problems. Not only that but if the child is unwanted, its upbringing will be horrible and the child will have all sorts of mental problems. That could pave the road for much greater issues down the line for the people who meet the kid, or the parents themselves. |
| dotdotdot Killjoy Age: 77 Gender: Male Posts: 56 | If they can't get it legally then most won't get one. Some will and we can't change that number, but I believe it is murder in any form as well as euthanasia. I'm Catholic. I have been taught this and I have just recently come to realize my true opinion on it. And I am reading Of Mice and Men later this year for my course. |
| Wandering_Soul Jazz Hands Age: 31 Gender: Male Posts: 303 | I think that instead of getting one medically most would opt for the coat hanger, vaccum, or other such method, instead of abandoning the idea all together. But there is the central controversy of the entire issue. When is the unborn fetus truely considered alive? There is not even a heartbeat until 6 weeks after conception. All of this is opinion about when the unborn is alive. I personally believe that the fetus is not considered alive until about 6 weeks have passed. But even then I am ok with abortion. If the parents don't want the kid enough to kill it, then it should not be brought into this world. |
| Last.Night.On.Earth Bleeding on the Floor  Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 1564 | I think that a foetus should be considered "alive" when it can survive independently outside the mother's body. By that I don't mean it can feed itself etc because that would just be stupid. By the comment I mean it can breathe and it's heart beating. Yes it can have help from machines ( I did for the first 48 hours of my life) and because of progresses in medicine this date is getting earlier and earlier. I do not think abortion should be banned after five weeks because the heart is beating. So? A five week foetus cannot survive without the mother, it is physically impossible and at that age it doesn't have a past, a present and it doesn't think about it's future. Nobody can remember being unborn if that even makes sense. So if you go back to the idea of old philosophers such as Decartes, at the age of five weeks it is not a centric being, it is just a mass of nerves, the beginning of bones and the start of a brain. It does not think and so therefore is not "Alive" by the definitions of many humanists. "I think therefore I am" is a famous quote by Decartes and if it does not think can it truly be counted as alive? Thoughts? |
| Cigarettes And Suicide Bleeding on the Floor  Age: 37 Gender: Female Posts: 1725 | ^ It's all just a giant grey area. There is no conclusive 'yes' or 'no' answer, everybody just has to believe what they want. For what it's worth, a foetus is considered viable (ie able to live outside the womb) at 24 weeks' gestation (and of course there are some rare cases where a younger foetus has been saved, but generally if a woman goes into early labour before 24 weeks, doctors will attempt to prevent the child being born, but if that fails, they won't try to save the baby). And, what of late-term abortions due to previously undetected medical conditions, like chromosomal disorders or malformed brain/spine/other body parts, that mean the child will likely die either in the womb or very soon after birth? Do you believe women should be able to terminate these pregnancies after the 24-week mark? |
| Jenny. Moderator Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 19720 | mannaquin:Personally I don't think that's true. You can tell this by looking at the abortion rate in countries where abortions were illegal. Even if abortions were made illegal, the demand for them wouldn't go down, which would probably result in illegal abortion clinics, which would probably be unsafe and unhygeinic, which heightens the risk on the mother's life. |
| dotdotdot Killjoy Age: 77 Gender: Male Posts: 56 | Even in countries where they are illegal that number is smaller than here in the USA where it is legal. And for the Decartes quote, who says that there is no brain activity in the fetus? I'm not a doctor and I don't really know... but Would the mother's in illegal abortion countries really wish to risk hurting and even killing themselves just to have an illegal and harmful abortion? |
| Jenny. Moderator Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 19720 | mannaquin: clearly, seeing as they do. |
| John St. John Shotgun Sinner Age: 31 Gender: Male Posts: 7145 | mannaquin: I think that goes to show how desperate they would have to be, making them have a child because of someone elses views would be cruel imo. |
| Jesse Lacey; Awake and Unafraid  Age: 28 Gender: Female Posts: 12077 | My mother's friend does ultrasounds at the local hospital for mostly high-risk pregnancies. There were two babies born this week with such severe defects that they were stillborn. One had no brain and the other had no skull. Why should a woman like that have to carry a baby to term that she knows will die? |
| Jesse Lacey; Awake and Unafraid Age: 28 Gender: Female Posts: 12077 | mannaquin:Well see, that's just the thing- none of us are doctors and none of us know. Not to call anyone here (or anyone anywhere) stupid, but unless you really know what you're talking about (and again, I'm using "you" as a plural, general noun) can you really make a good decision about abortion? |
| dotdotdot Killjoy Age: 77 Gender: Male Posts: 56 | My youngest brother was supposed to have so many defects he would die. My mum was told to have an abortion but she didn't. She had him and he has no birth defects. |
| Jesse Lacey; Awake and Unafraid Age: 28 Gender: Female Posts: 12077 | I'm glad for him, but clearly that is an exception to a rule. Laws cannot be made out of exceptions. |
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