Abortions.

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Jenny. Moderator Age: 29 Gender: Female Posts: 19720	October 27th, 2009 at 10:29am Well, the fact that we HAVE a sex drive is due to our biological need to reproduce.
Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614	October 30th, 2009 at 02:40am mannaquin: What about the trauma of having an abortion? Abrotion leads to despression, anxiety and sometimes even worse conditions for the mothers. And You are talking about the overloaded foster homes and adoption agencies in the world. What about in America where not many can adopt american babies, but most go to other countries where the adoptions aren't finalized, legalized and fall through. Choice is a beautiful think and death can be too under the right circumstances. Where are your sources that point to studies that clearly state having an abortion "leads to depression and anxiety and worse conditions"? There isn't actually a link between women who have abortions and poor mental health. So called "post abortion syndrome" isn't recognised by any institution as being an actual diagnosable syndrome. Sorry, but women don't become depressed and all of a sudden have an anxiety disorder because they've aborted their fetus. The American Psychological Association concluded that "termination of a first, unplanned pregnancy did not lead to an increased risk of mental health problems. The data for multiple abortions were more equivocal, as the same factors that predispose a woman to multiple unwanted pregnancies may also predispose her to mental health difficulties." (from the Wiki page on abortion and mental health). mannaquin: They couldn't handle having the child so why did they have sex? You have to be reayd for all of the things that can happen. Because women aren't baby making machines who want a child every time they have sex. Because sexuality and sex goes deeper than just fertilising or being fertilised. Because people should be allowed to have sexual and reproductive autonomy. Because sex feels good and isn't just for procreation. I think you may need to understand human sexuality a bit better, or at least look into it deeper. The argument of "don't want a child? Don't have sex" carries a lot of weight, and it is never so simple because humans don't just have sex to pro create. It's also insulting to people who may not want children, and it's insulting to women - at least, I feel it is - to suggest that they should keep their legs shut unless their ready for children.
Jenny. Moderator Age: 29 Gender: Female Posts: 19720	October 30th, 2009 at 06:34am Adding onto the above post, even if the woman doesn't have an abortion and carries the baby full term, have you heard of post-natal depression? Women who do the "right" thing can end up suffering from depression just as much as, if not more than women who abort an unwanted pregnancy.
Cigarettes And Suicide Bleeding on the Floor Age: 37 Gender: Female Posts: 1725	October 31st, 2009 at 01:55am ^ Thanks A bit off-topic, but for what it's worth, I have suffered mild PND following the birth of both my children - and wouldn't you know it, I actually WANTED them before conceiving them! Conversely, the three people I know who have terminated pregnancies (one person actually had two terminations, and before you go right ahead and label her an evil, slutty monster who gets her kicks from killing babies, bear in mind you don't know a goddman thing about her or her circumstances - oh, AND she was taking the Pill as directed BOTH times she fell pregnant) have suffered nothing more than a few days of cramping and bleeding and back to life as if it had never happened. So I really don't buy the old 'but you'll regret it and become suicidal if you get an abortion' argument. Having a child or not has nothing to do with whether you will suffer from mental illness at some stage of your life. As Mindfuck said, there has been no conclusive evidence proving that abortions cause mental illness, and if anything I'd be inclined to blame the wider circumstances of a person's life first - what led to her having an abortion? Was she in an abusive relationship? Using alcohol or drugs irresponsibly? Not financially stable to care for a child? Does her family have a history of illness, disease or other inherited conditions that may have led her to believe a child of hers may be similarly affected? All these factors are much more likely to cause depression than a simple d&c in the first trimester.
xxZalanortxx Killjoy Age: 28 Gender: Male Posts: 79	November 1st, 2009 at 12:47am I recently read a bumper sticker that said "If you can't trust my choice, can you really trust me with a baby." That is a quite valid point.
Darkromance Banned Age: - Gender: - Posts: 322	November 9th, 2009 at 12:45pm John St. John: Quote since the only reason why people have the feelings to do that is a biological purpose to reproduce. I kind of disagree. Many people dont have sex for the biological purpose anymore, the meaning of sex really changed ages ago if you think about it. yeeaaaahh but I believe that even though people don't conciously do it just for that anymore, it's still there to verify the continuation of the human race. even if people do it not to procreate, if they mess up and go along with things the wrong way (and if they don't interrupt the process with manmade factors), they'll become pregnant, and that's what nature wants for the human race (and other aimals). anything having to do with our bodies doens't happen without a reason.
Darkromance Banned Age: - Gender: - Posts: 322	November 9th, 2009 at 01:03pm well In my opinion you all should consider this: sometimes women's bodies abort babies themselves. Those are called miscarriages. Also, some women give birth to dangerously premature babies, whom could die naturally if no one tried to save them. natural abortion or concious abortion, they still happen for a reason. and I don't think we should govern what women decide to do.
dotdotdot Killjoy Age: 77 Gender: Male Posts: 56	November 11th, 2009 at 11:10am If you count in religion for some people, miscarriages are God's will. Aboriton is murder. I just thought everyone shoudl think about their belief system. It may be a woman's choice but it's a life she is taking from an innocent thing that did nothing wrong. I think women should have a choice, sure I do. But my belief that aboriton is murder comes before a woman's choice. And I am a woman. And I am pregnant.
Daft Fabulous Killjoy Age: 29 Gender: Male Posts: 157	November 11th, 2009 at 11:59pm Um, leads to depression and anxiety? Ask yourself this.... If the mother DIDNT have the abortion (presuming a young mother here.... teens.) How would she feel about having a baby with (most likely) no solid father figure?
dotdotdot Killjoy Age: 77 Gender: Male Posts: 56	November 13th, 2009 at 10:36am She can have the baby and give it up for adoption. But taking away its life doesn't seem fair to me. It's murder. And I don't have anything against woman and girls that have them, but I don't think it is the best choice. The mother doesn't have to kill the baby,s he can give it a better home somewhere else to a family that really wants a baby and can't have them.
questionable content Always Born a Crime Age: 28 Gender: Female Posts: 5604	November 13th, 2009 at 03:00pm ^ I think I get what you're saying, but there are parts of it that just don't make a lot of sense to me. Like, if it really is murder, then I don't think anyone would support or not have anything against the people who commit it.
Jenny. Moderator Age: 29 Gender: Female Posts: 19720	November 13th, 2009 at 03:10pm i feel like i'm going round and round in circles in this thread The whole "it's murder" debate is a very grey area - I myself believe that it's not murder if the foetus is not able to live outside the mother's body.I agree with questionable content. If it were universally believed as murder, I believe that society would not support abortion at all, and it would never have been legal at all.
Cigarettes And Suicide Bleeding on the Floor Age: 37 Gender: Female Posts: 1725	November 14th, 2009 at 04:44am mannaquin: She can have the baby and give it up for adoption. Yeah, because going through the trauma of pregnancy and birth and then handing a baby over to strangers, never to be seen again, TOTALLY doesn't act as a potential trigger for depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses. What cost to the mother does that nine or so months represent? The loss of a job, the judgment from family, friends and strangers, the pain and suffering that a simple, complication-free textbook pregnancy presents (and don't get me started on one that DOES have risks), the financial burden of receiving adequate antenatal care in order to ensure the child has the best start in life so as to be more attractive to potential adoptive parents, the loss of education opportunities if the mother is a young one and drops out of school, the emotional trauma of being bullied/ostracised by her social network... and then the years and years of pain, never knowing what became of your child and always wondering 'what if', feeling guilty that you did the child a disservice by not holding onto them and doing your best to be their parent regardless of your circumstances at the time, and so on, and so forth. I'm sure most people would agree that those circumstances would almost guarantee that a pregnant woman would wind up needing some serious therapy. Whereas a simple termination in the early stages of pregnancy can avoid all that - nobody ever has to know if the mother chooses not to share, for fear of being judged. She can go on with life as though nothing ever happened and while some women may suffer from feelings of guilt or become depressed, I'd be willing to bet that it's more to do with society's stigma concerning abortion than any genuine feelings of having made the wrong choice. No. Obviously I applaud those women that DO find the strength within themselves to endure all of that in order to give their child a chance at a life... but no way could I ever do that on the slim chance that some wonderful person does adopt my flesh and blood. I'd rather die than carry a child to term and give it away like it was an unwanted Christmas present. I'd much rather terminate.
Jesse Lacey; Awake and Unafraid Age: 28 Gender: Female Posts: 12077	November 17th, 2009 at 09:42pm mannaquin: She can have the baby and give it up for adoption. But taking away its life doesn't seem fair to me. It's murder. And I don't have anything against woman and girls that have them, but I don't think it is the best choice. The mother doesn't have to kill the baby,s he can give it a better home somewhere else to a family that really wants a baby and can't have them. If you believe what you believe because of your religion, faith, and relationship with God, then I can respect that. I don't see why anyone can't respect that. But the fact is, you can't use religion as a reason to make something illegal. In America, it says right in the first amendment you can't do that. I'm sure other countries have similar rules. You just can't impose religious beliefs on others.
Break Me Down Fabulous Killjoy Age: 27 Gender: Female Posts: 154	November 29th, 2009 at 09:11am Bjork: mannaquin: She can have the baby and give it up for adoption. But taking away its life doesn't seem fair to me. It's murder. And I don't have anything against woman and girls that have them, but I don't think it is the best choice. The mother doesn't have to kill the baby,s he can give it a better home somewhere else to a family that really wants a baby and can't have them. If you believe what you believe because of your religion, faith, and relationship with God, then I can respect that. I don't see why anyone can't respect that. But the fact is, you can't use religion as a reason to make something illegal. In America, it says right in the first amendment you can't do that. I'm sure other countries have similar rules. You just can't impose religious beliefs on others. I agree, religion cannot make a law. though I believe it is wrong, you can't force anyone to not abort. if they want to, that's their choice.
LunacyFringe Killjoy Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 82	November 29th, 2009 at 12:00pm Dedalus Diggle: [size=1] The whole "it's murder" debate is a very grey area - I myself believe that it's not murder if the foetus is not able to live outside the mother's body.I agree with questionable content. If it were universally believed as murder, I believe that society would not support abortion at all, and it would never have been legal at all. But you must remember that their was a time when things like slavery were believed by most of the population, to be something that was ok. Just because a majority doesnt have a problem with something does not make it right. Yes, nowadays most of the population is not against abortion, but that in no way is an argument for whether or not abortion is murder.
Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614	November 29th, 2009 at 06:56pm LunacyFringe: But you must remember that their was a time when things like slavery were believed by most of the population, to be something that was ok. Just because a majority doesnt have a problem with something does not make it right. Yes, nowadays most of the population is not against abortion, but that in no way is an argument for whether or not abortion is murder. You know what I think is wholeheartly wrong? Back alley abortions, illegal abortions, abortions where the woman's life and fertility is put on the line. That is what we would face even more so than now if abortion were illegal. Abortion is legal in a lot of countries for a reason. It's not legal because the majority think it's right. It's legal because it needs to be legal and safe for the sake of women's health, primarily. Slavery is not okay because it readily impacts on a living, breathing, thinking, feeling human life by degrading them, it's physically and psychologically harmful to them over prolonged periods of time and because it's against human rights to legally "own" another person and do what you like with them. Abortion is a completely different thing that needs to be legal so women have access to safe, medical or surgical abortion procedures. Otherwise, it's back to throwing themselves down the stairs or the coat hanger. Answer this: would you prefer to live in a world where women have access to legal and safe abortion procedures, or a world where women harmed themselves and their chances of ever conceiving again because of DIY abortion attempts? Because even if abortion becomes illegal, it would still happen. Just not in a safe way. It would exist in a harmful way.
LunacyFringe Killjoy Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 82	November 29th, 2009 at 10:14pm ^^ I wasnt comparing abortion to slavery at all. Dedalus Diggle commented that if the population believed abortion to be murder then it would be illegal. But i said that just because the majority of the population doesnt think its murder doesnt mean they are right. I agree that if abortions were illegal then we would have more unsafe abortions. Im not really about making abortions illegal. Im about preventing them from happening. Prevention is the best thing for everybody. The less people have unplanned pregnancy the less people have abortions. Simple. So I say we stop caring about whether abortion is legal or not and start worrying about preventing pregnancy!
Jenny. Moderator Age: 29 Gender: Female Posts: 19720	November 30th, 2009 at 05:08pm LunacyFringe: . Dedalus Diggle commented that if the population believed abortion to be murder then it would be illegal. But i said that just because the majority of the population doesnt think its murder doesnt mean they are right. Just to clear things up, I meant that if abortion was accepted as murder, then it clearly wouldn't be legal [murder being illegal etc], so obviously a lot of the population do not believe the whole abortion = murder argument, so it's not really a fact to base an argument on. I didn't mean that abortion is DEFINITELY not murder because the world believes in it. I understand your argument about slavery, and I also understand how Mindfuck could believe that you're comparing slavery to abortion. Does that make sense, or am I talking gibberish? /totally spammy post, but I wanted to clear things up about my post etc, sorry.
LunacyFringe Killjoy Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 82	November 30th, 2009 at 06:03pm ^^ You make perfect sense /end of my spamming, sorry

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