Abortions.

Roonil Wazlib:

Preach it, sister!

First Trimester

^Cuz that doesn't look like human hands at ALL. (note my sarcasm... also, don't click if you get queasy easily...)

Yeah, and? They grow to look like humans pretty early on (at nine weeks I could see mine swimming around kicking its legs and waving its arms around), but that doesn't mean it can think, feel, breathe, or live outside the womb. Therefore, it is still a clump of cells. It's not like it's simply a mass resembling a tumour until 26 weeks and then it suddenly sprouts a head, arms and legs. Eh, it's hard to explain to anybody who's never been pregnant (and I feel like an expert at this stage of my pregnancy), but just because something looks like something doesn't mean it is something.

Anyway, I don't believe that a pair of 'arms' the size of a coin, that doesn't know any better and isn't really 'alive' as such, has more right to live than the living, breathing mother, who's already been around for twenty or more years.

^ i agree think if you had to go through it, you would probaly kill yourself mentally, late at night think about what you've done but its their choice you can't tell people how to live their lives.

[quote="Cigarettes And Suicide] I've said it before and I'll say it again.
The assumption that anybody getting an abortion is an irresponsible, promiscuous teenager is absolutely ridiculous.


First of all i never said that everyone getting an abortion is an irresponsible teenager. And you are only 20 you are not that much older then a teenager. I also feel like you are referring to all teenagers as promiscuous and irresponsible, i find that offensive.




Granted, a fair majority of board members aren't even old enough to have had their first kiss, let alone been in an intimate relationship with someone, so I can kind of understand the narrow-mindedness I'm seeing in this thread and others around the place.

I also find it offensive that you are calling me and my beliefs narrowminded. I am in no way "narrowminded". I also feel like you are saying that i am not old enough to understand, well you're wrong i do understand it and to me it is still not right.




That being said, I'd like to state my piece. Not every woman who has an unplanned pregnancy is being irresponsible, nor is the woman 'ignoring possible consequences' and just 'going ahead and having sex anyway'. Lots of women who terminate their pregnancies are in stable relationships, using protection properly, and it's not a simple matter of 'Well, if you know there's a slight chance of getting pregnant through sexual intercourse, don't have sex and then you won't need an abortion.'

Abortion is not the only option you can put the baby up for adaption. And Yes i realize that the foster care system is not good at all and a lot of children are abused or not taken care of well but its better then the mother killing her own baby before the child even had a chance to live.



Adults, and a lot of teenagers, have sex. This is a natural human instinct, designed for procreation,

Yes true but it is not a humen instinct to kill your own baby.

but these days we have the option of taking measures to ensure that we can indulge in such activity without a child resulting from it.

Yes and most of them only work 99% of the time and it states that on the box and even if it doesnt you learn that in school or from your parents.

It's all well and good for people to say, 'Abstain if you don't want a baby,' but hell, if I tried to deny my husband sex on a regular basis, we'd end up divorced or he'd cheat - we're in a relationship and sex is a big part of that! You can't just cut off those primal urges, especially not when you're with somebody who you're committed to mind, body and soul. I happen to enjoy this part of our relationship as well, and telling me I'm a bad person for getting an abortion if we were using protection properly and still fell pregnant with an unplanned baby is nonsense. I have never had an abortion or an unplanned pregnancy (ours was sudden but not unwanted - we'd planned children but hadn't expected it to happen so soon), but then half of you people have never even had a serious boyfriend, let alone sex, so I don't feel you can make a statement like 'Don't want kids? Simple. Don't have sex, and if you do and you end up with one, don't be a coward and abort it.'

Yes however if you are so dedicated to them and willing to kill an innocent baby just so you can get pleasure in my mind that is messed up. Thats my opinion. And again you are wrong to assume that the people on this board have not had a serious relationship- you do not know half the people on this board in real life- and even if they have not had a serious relationship they are free to say what they want and believe what they want and you telling them that they can't, is ignorant.



Sure, it's easy enough to say that to teenagers who aren't in a position to be having sex really, but the vast majority of women who have abortions are grown, consenting adults who are in committed relationships and are being as responsible as they can be.

I feel that if they are not ready to have a baby then the most responsible thing to do is to not have sex again you are taught that protection is only 99% effective.

It is absolutely narrow-minded to say, 'well if you didn't want a child you should have kept your legs closed,' because hey - adults have sex. Don't hate on them for it, it's natural, it's human, and it's fine to do so. And stop assuming that 'abortion' is synonymous with 'teenaged slut'.[/quote]

I am not hating adults for having sex. I never said that abortion is the same as being a "teenage slut"

It is my opinion that killing another human being, yet your own child is just plain wrong and it is disgusting. That is my opinion and it doesnt make me narrowminded for believing that. It offends me that you would even say that. I am in no way trying to change your opinion i am just defending myself and stating my beliefs and i dont appreciate you calling me narrowminded for doing so.


sorry its so long.

If you don't agree with abortion, then don't have one. Go through with the pregnancy on your own, because none of us here are telling you that you have to have one under your own circumstances.

I don't think you are saving anybody's life by making abortion illegal. If you want to save a life, maybe you should think about the other half- the more important one; the mother. If the mother isn't ready for a baby, and if she wants to get rid of it, by all means she will try. Because we all know that without the mom, there is no baby.

Not a single woman should be forced to have a baby because the government says so. Same goes for anybody who doesn't want an abortion.

deathwish:

First of all, having an abortion is NOT the same as "killing a baby". And personally I think that's a terribly cheap thing to say - having an abortion is not like strangling an infant or anything so vile. It's the quick, painless termination of life for something with no consciousness that isn't even truly human.

Secondly, I don't think Cigarettes and Suicide's post was directed entirely at you. It's only that most anti-abortion people who come in here simply say "abortions should be illegal because if a girl is slutty and sleeping around then she should have to pay the consequences" or some nonsense like that, and the fact that that is a narrow-minded view had to be said. And you must admit that your comment could at the very least be interpreted that way, even if that's not what you meant.

Thirdly, besides the fact that adoption is not that easy and can end up in a terrible life for the child, not every woman is physically or mentally strong enough to deal with carrying a baby to term and then handing it over (when it actually is alive and human, assuming it gets that far). Additionally, being pregnant means a woman might have to quit her job or be fired, as well as advertise to the world that she got pregnant, and then explain to everyone she knows why there's no baby at home. It would be incredibly hard to deal with and I think it would be awful, a few weeks into pregnancy to tell a woman she can't abort something that doesn't even know the difference and must face that future.

And lastly, people are always going to have sex. You can't have them stop just on the off chance that a woman might be ovulating (which is only a handful of days out of the year) which might lead to pregnancy on top of the 1% chance that her birth control might fail, and the woman would not be willing to raise a child or carry a baby to term. The chances are far too slim.

But, of course, sometimes women do get pregnant anyway, and sometimes they decide that thy do not want to continue their pregnancy. And that's their choice. It affects no one else except possibly the potential father, simply because there is no one else. The embryo is not a person; not yet, at least. It's not a baby. It's no one's child. Legally and scientifically, it's just some unconscious cells. As Soma said; if you don't want one, don't get one.

Fezzik:

First of all, having an abortion is NOT the same as "killing a baby"

That's your opinion, it's not a fact either way.

deathwish:

[quote="Cigarettes And Suicide] I've said it before and I'll say it again.
The assumption that anybody getting an abortion is an irresponsible, promiscuous teenager is absolutely ridiculous.

First of all i never said that everyone getting an abortion is an irresponsible teenager. And you are only 20 you are not that much older then a teenager. I also feel like you are referring to all teenagers as promiscuous and irresponsible, i find that offensive.

By no means am I the one implying that all teenagers are promiscuous. I'm just seeing a lot of that opinion coming from other people on this board (and it's not just restricted to this thread, or your own posts. It's a lot of people who don't take the time to think through a subject before posting their opinion). I may be only 20, but I've had a vast amount of life experience and other education, much more than a lot of people my own age, so I feel I have every right to state my opinions and try to inform people when their views are misinformed or otherwise misguided. I didn't mean to attack you personally (if you saw it as an attack), I was just trying to make it clear to everyone reading this thread that 'abortion' is not synonymous with 'teenage slut' - which, sadly, a huge amount of posters seem to believe.

deathwish:

[i][quote="Cigarettes And Suicide]Granted, a fair majority of board members aren't even old enough to have had their first kiss, let alone been in an intimate relationship with someone, so I can kind of understand the narrow-mindedness I'm seeing in this thread and others around the place.

I also find it offensive that you are calling me and my beliefs narrowminded. I am in no way "narrowminded". I also feel like you are saying that i am not old enough to understand, well you're wrong i do understand it and to me it is still not right.

Again, I'm not using you personally as an example of such narrow-mindedness. At 17, I feel you are old enough to have a relatively good understanding of the topic at hand, and I apologise if you feel singled out by my comments. You do have to admit, though, that there are a huge number of members between the ages of 11 and 16, and it's these people that I was directing my comments at, simply because, at the age of 12, you can't know much of anything except what your parents have told you, and what your teachers have told you. And most people this age, instead of having any personal experience under their belt, simply parrot what they hear their parents talking about, and call it their 'opinion'.

deathwish:

[i][quote="Cigarettes And Suicide]That being said, I'd like to state my piece. Not every woman who has an unplanned pregnancy is being irresponsible, nor is the woman 'ignoring possible consequences' and just 'going ahead and having sex anyway'. Lots of women who terminate their pregnancies are in stable relationships, using protection properly, and it's not a simple matter of 'Well, if you know there's a slight chance of getting pregnant through sexual intercourse, don't have sex and then you won't need an abortion.'

Abortion is not the only option you can put the baby up for adaption. And Yes i realize that the foster care system is not good at all and a lot of children are abused or not taken care of well but its better then the mother killing her own baby before the child even had a chance to live.

I agree, abortion isn't the only option, but it is my very strong belief that abortion is preferable to a life lived in a system where the quality of life is less than spectacular. I respect that your opinion is different, all I'm stating is my feeling that life is about quality, not quanitity, and for that reason I know I would rather have been aborted before I had a chance at life and therefore not know any better, than have a life where I'm either in a family that cannot or does not want to care for me adequately, or have a life where (for example, foster care) the threat of abuse (physical, sexual and mental) is very real, and going through life knowing that, for whatever reason, I was unwanted - I'd feel like a complete waste of space and that, to me, is no way to live. I'd never want any child to feel like that, so I believe abortion is probably the best option, rather than never having a sense of belonging, being wanted, being loved.

deathwish:

[i][quote="Cigarettes And Suicide]Adults, and a lot of teenagers, have sex. This is a natural human instinct, designed for procreation,

Yes true but it is not a human instinct to kill your own baby.

That would depend on how you look at it. Survival is an animal's first and foremost instinct, and there are several reasons women would choose to terminate a pregnancy because, if they were forced to carry and care for a child, their survival would be in danger. Yes, maternal instinct and all that hearts-and-flowers stuff, but there are many, many women out there who simply don't have those maternal instincts and therefore they are more important than a potential child. There are many others who are capable of that maternal instinct, but it doesn't kick in until, say, they feel their baby's first kicks, or until they actually give birth and hold their child. Both of these examples fall a long time after the cut-off for abortion, so for these women, there was no 'child' to kill - they don't look at it that way, and for that reason, they shouldn't be vilified by strangers for their decisions. The fact is, abortion isn't 'killing babies' - it's removing a cluster of cells. There are no 'babies' involved, nor is it 'murder'.

deathwish:

[i][quote="Cigarettes And Suicide]but these days we have the option of taking measures to ensure that we can indulge in such activity without a child resulting from it.

Yes and most of them only work 99% of the time and it states that on the box and even if it doesnt you learn that in school or from your parents.

It's all well and good for people to say, 'Abstain if you don't want a baby,' but hell, if I tried to deny my husband sex on a regular basis, we'd end up divorced or he'd cheat - we're in a relationship and sex is a big part of that! You can't just cut off those primal urges, especially not when you're with somebody who you're committed to mind, body and soul. I happen to enjoy this part of our relationship as well, and telling me I'm a bad person for getting an abortion if we were using protection properly and still fell pregnant with an unplanned baby is nonsense. I have never had an abortion or an unplanned pregnancy (ours was sudden but not unwanted - we'd planned children but hadn't expected it to happen so soon), but then half of you people have never even had a serious boyfriend, let alone sex, so I don't feel you can make a statement like 'Don't want kids? Simple. Don't have sex, and if you do and you end up with one, don't be a coward and abort it.'

Yes however if you are so dedicated to them and willing to kill an innocent baby just so you can get pleasure in my mind that is messed up. Thats my opinion. And again you are wrong to assume that the people on this board have not had a serious relationship- you do not know half the people on this board in real life- and even if they have not had a serious relationship they are free to say what they want and believe what they want and you telling them that they can't, is ignorant.

Again, this is where I'm coming from with the 'not all abortions are performed on teenagers/irresponsible people'. Of course anybody with half a brain is aware that no contraception method is absolutely foolproof, but should that mean everybody on earth only has sex with their partner in order to create a child? No. It's a primal instinct to indulge in such activity, and even the most careful person can fall pregnant. This is not their fault, therefore you can't get mad at them for not wanting to have a child. They weren't being irresponsible and they're not using abortion as the easy way out - it is simply the best decision for them, their body, and their relationship/family to not go through with the pregnancy. People do not have sex solely to get pleasure, and it's not like every time I get intimate with my husband, I think to myself, 'Hey, this is totally worth killing a baby over,' because it's not like that at all. Sex is part of a committed relationship, and a lot of times it's not just to achieve climax, but a physical way of showing your partner how much you love them and are dedicated to them - giving them your body is a sign of your commitment to them. A relationship without sex can work quite successfully for younger couples, but when you reach adulthood, if you're not doing such things, you won't keep a partner very long. And even the most careful, cautious couple can fall pregnant, and most in that scenario will buckle down and make a go at parenthood. A few just cannot comprehend the lifestyle and relationship changes, and decide it would be better to not continue with the pregnancy. To me, this is not wrong - they have every right to continue to live their lives the way they'd planned, far more rights than something that might not even make it past the first trimester anyway, so if these couples feel they're not up to the challenge, I think they (and the fetus) are better off having an abortion than ruining their lives for a moral argument that they don't even believe in.

deathwish:

[i][quote="Cigarettes And Suicide]Sure, it's easy enough to say that to teenagers who aren't in a position to be having sex really, but the vast majority of women who have abortions are grown, consenting adults who are in committed relationships and are being as responsible as they can be.

I feel that if they are not ready to have a baby then the most responsible thing to do is to not have sex again you are taught that protection is only 99% effective.

Again, it's nowhere near as simple as that. My husband and I only plan on having two children, so are you trying to tell me that my husband and I should only have sex once more after this baby is born, or have sex until we conceive our second child, and then never touch each other in an intimate way again just in case our contraception method fails?
Sorry, but no dice. That's the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Honestly. You're 17, get a clue. Nobody can be celibate - look what happens to Catholic priests who are expected to never have sex - they end up screwing around with little boys because they can't do normal, healthy things in a normal, healthy relationship. And that's their fault for taking such ridiculous vows, but come on. Humans are human, and for all the intelligence and education we have, we're still animals. Animals that want to have sex with their partners.

deathwish:

It is my opinion that killing another human being, yet your own child is just plain wrong and it is disgusting. That is my opinion and it doesnt make me narrowminded for believing that. It offends me that you would even say that. I am in no way trying to change your opinion i am just defending myself and stating my beliefs and i dont appreciate you calling me narrowminded for doing so.

I wasn't necessarily calling you narrow-minded - just the majority of anti-abortion posters who refuse to either do research, or look at things from any perspective but what their Sunday School teachers have bashed into their heads with an 8-pound Bible. I'm not trying to change your opinion either, just stating mine, as you stated yours, and providing rebuttals to your sometimes misguided beliefs. I could care less whether my posts change your mind at all or not, because I don't know you and your beliefs have no influence over me.
All I'm saying is, sometimes not everything is black-and-white, and sometimes looking at things from a different perspective, or hearing somebody else's opinion on a matter, can make all the difference in how you look at something or feel about something.
The fact is, the government should have no say in what a woman does with her own body - it's her choice, and she has far more right to live, and live well, than an embryo that knows no better and never will if it is terminated. And the women in question shouldn't be questioned or vilified for their reasons - whatever their reasons are make perfect sense to them, if not you or I, but you and I aren't the ones affected by that woman's decision, so we should let her get on with her life and stay out of it - not accuse her of being a child murderer.

I am pro-choice. But I do realize there are other, better options. But it isn't any of business whether or not another woman has an abortion or not.

About a year ago, someone asked my sister why she was pro-choice. The girl asking was a high school senior, a college bound straight A student who was very religious and very conservative. My sister merely asked her that if, for whatever reason, she should become pregnant within the next year, just when she was about to really start her life, wouldn't getting an abortion cross her mind?

She said yes.

That said, I believe pro-choice covers the other side as well...when someone forces a pregnant woman to get an abortion. I read an article where a mother forced her teenage daughter to get an abortion when the daughter and her boyfriend were willing and ready to take responsibility for their actions.

Abortion is a personal decision. It shouldn't be decided by politicians who are sometimes blinded by their religious points of view. It should only be decided by the mother.

ok well abortion on one hand is wrong morally, we have to put up with the outcomes of our actions. but i'm actually pro-chioce though i'm not going agianst what i just said, but in New York City the crime rate has droppen alot because of abortion, 79% chance that an unwanted baby will end up commiting crime and get procicuted, not all but that is alot. and if the baby is unwanted, why make it go through a hard life? let the mother abort it if she wants.

But if the baby is going to have a hard life there is such a thing as ADOPTION. There are thousands of couples in the world who want a child but are unable to have one. Why not make them happy, giving up a child for adoption will give them what they want and the mother will not feel guilty about killing a baby.

Alot of people who get abortion feel guilty afterwards and the suicide rate of teenagers who have abortions is higher than that of mothers who give up their child for adoption

ROCK FOR LIFE

This site is a great place to learn about how abortion is wrong. You should check it out

i think they are quite sad, if you know that you are not ready to raise a child proplerly then not get pregnant

JadeTiger712:

But if the baby is going to have a hard life there is such a thing as ADOPTION. There are thousands of couples in the world who want a child but are unable to have one. Why not make them happy, giving up a child for adoption will give them what they want and the mother will not feel guilty about killing a baby.

Alot of people who get abortion feel guilty afterwards and the suicide rate of teenagers who have abortions is higher than that of mothers who give up their child for adoption

ROCK FOR LIFE

This site is a great place to learn about how abortion is wrong. You should check it out

While adoption may be a viable option that everyone should consider instead of abortion, there is the issue of carrying the fetus to full-term. Not pleasant from what I hear and very emotional for everyone involved.

Plus there are already hundreds of thousands of kids in the United States in foster care waiting to ber adopted.

The Rumor.:

Fezzik:

First of all, having an abortion is NOT the same as "killing a baby"

That's your opinion, it's not a fact either way.

exactly

My opinion is that Abortion is killing a baby. To me thats the same thing but like i said thats my opinion.

While adoption may be a viable option that everyone should consider instead of abortion, there is the issue of carrying the fetus to full-term. Not pleasant from what I hear and very emotional for everyone involved.

Plus there are already hundreds of thousands of kids in the United States in foster care waiting to ber adopted.

And having an abortion isnt emotional?
infact wouldnt that be worse because you are infact killing your own child.

^True. But it depends on the person. That's why its her decision and her decision alone.

JadeTiger712:

Alot of people who get abortion feel guilty afterwards and the suicide rate of teenagers who have abortions is higher than that of mothers who give up their child for adoption

Actually, the most common feeling after have an abortion is relief.

deathwish:

My opinion is that Abortion is killing a baby. To me thats the same thing but like i said thats my opinion.

Fezzik:

A baby is fully developed, conscious, can survive outside the womb, and can feel pain. It is a human being. An embryo is none of those things. So yes, it is a fact; killing a baby is not the same as killing an embryo.

Fezzik:

But literally, by definition, an embryo is not a baby; the two are totally different. You can believe an embryo is alive, has a soul, however you want to put it; that's your right, but by legal, scientific, and every other definition, a baby (a newborn; an infant) and an embryo are not the same.

Law has to be based on facts, not feelings. You can feel that an embryo is as much a human as an infant; that's your opinion and you have a right to it. But all scientific evidence points to the contrary. Abortion can't be banned or considered murder just because some people believe life starts at conception based on their own personal feeling.

deathwish:

While adoption may be a viable option that everyone should consider instead of abortion, there is the issue of carrying the fetus to full-term. Not pleasant from what I hear and very emotional for everyone involved.

Plus there are already hundreds of thousands of kids in the United States in foster care waiting to ber adopted.

And having an abortion isnt emotional?
infact wouldnt that be worse because you are infact killing your own child.

Again, all logic and reason says that an embryo is not the same as a child. If you believe it is, don't have an abortion, but you can hardly condemn abortion or women who have abortions for believing in science.

And as people have pointed out before, with abortion, you can grieve and move on. Deal with the fact that you might've been a mother, accept your decision, and get on with your life. Adoption means that you are a mother, biologically, and that your child will always be out there, and you will always be wondering about them. A friend of my mother's gave her child up for adoption when she was eighteen, and she never told a soul about it until she got into contact with him a few years ago (she's in her fifties now). She says that she thought about her child every day of her life; worrying how he was and wondering what sort of person he was growing into. So I do think that's more emotional than having an abortion, and not something every woman can deal with

emo.princess:

i think they are quite sad, if you know that you are not ready to raise a child proplerly then not get pregnant

Instead of me repeating what's been said a million times, just read this post.

^ you can't tell people how to live their lives, people handle situations differently, so depending on the person is how they're gonna react. it is a really sad situation but you never know what would happen to the mother. you don't want people to tell you how to live your life don't tell mothers about what to do with their child and body.