Abortions.

vamatelf:

I, being a feminist and what-not, am very torn on this subject. I want womens rights but this is my exception to those rights. I believe that it is alright to have an abortion if the mother was raped, her life was endangered, the mother is incapable of giving the child a safe environment (for example - a drug addict), or the child would be born with severe mental damage/ terrible disease resulting in crippling the child. I would also include women who used protection but were the unfortunate percentage who's protection failed them, but that would be very hard to prove/disprove. But for those who make no move to use protection, they shouldn't be allowed to have one. It is not a means of birth control and therefore shouldn't be used as such. If you aren't going to take the time to buy birth control or condoms at least have the day after pill stuffed inside your medicine cabinet. If they don't take the time to prevent it, they should have to live with their consequences. I do not give pity to stupid women who don't take this seriously.

I hope I offended no one. These are just my personal beliefs which I base upon my own consciences morals.

How are you going to prove they didn't try to use protection and it failed. Anyone can claim they used a condom.

Ok, i'm 50/50. if it was rape or incest, i think the mother should decide. she may want to keep the baby! also, in some cases the mother would die if she gave birth to the baby, like if something was wrong with some of her organs or if her body couldnt support the baby. one of my family members got an abortion cuz it would possibly kill her if she gave birth to it.
but it does upset me that the baby dies ((((

druscilla; in rags:

How are you going to prove they didn't try to use protection and it failed. Anyone can claim they used a condom.

No one can prove anything that's why abortion will forever be allowed. I was just sprouting out my ideas and thoughts on the matter.

EmoCandy:

eww!!!!

Once again, discuss.

vamatelf:

druscilla; in rags:

How are you going to prove they didn't try to use protection and it failed. Anyone can claim they used a condom.

No one can prove anything that's why abortion will forever be allowed. I was just sprouting out my ideas and thoughts on the matter.

I wouldn't be too sure about abortion always being allowed.
The U.S. government is already taking steps to overturn Roe vs. Wade.

"I wouldn't be too sure about abortion always being allowed.
The U.S. government is already taking steps to overturn Roe vs. Wade."

Don't forget the fact that late-term abortions in the U.S. are also illegal, even when the birth of the child would endanger the mother's life.

Oops...double post.

ayn_inverse:

"I wouldn't be too sure about abortion always being allowed.
The U.S. government is already taking steps to overturn Roe vs. Wade."

Don't forget the fact that late-term abortions (abortions that occur in the second and third trimester) in the U.S. are also illegal, even when the birth of the child would endanger the mother's life.

That's why I said the US government is taking steps to overturn Roe vs. Wade.
It's disgusting and wrong that politicians aren't letting physicians make health decisions about a woman's body.

druscilla; in rags:

vamatelf:

I, being a feminist and what-not, am very torn on this subject. I want womens rights but this is my exception to those rights. I believe that it is alright to have an abortion if the mother was raped, her life was endangered, the mother is incapable of giving the child a safe environment (for example - a drug addict), or the child would be born with severe mental damage/ terrible disease resulting in crippling the child. I would also include women who used protection but were the unfortunate percentage who's protection failed them, but that would be very hard to prove/disprove. But for those who make no move to use protection, they shouldn't be allowed to have one. It is not a means of birth control and therefore shouldn't be used as such. If you aren't going to take the time to buy birth control or condoms at least have the day after pill stuffed inside your medicine cabinet. If they don't take the time to prevent it, they should have to live with their consequences. I do not give pity to stupid women who don't take this seriously.

I hope I offended no one. These are just my personal beliefs which I base upon my own consciences morals.

How are you going to prove they didn't try to use protection and it failed. Anyone can claim they used a condom.

And even more than that, why should a child be used as punishment for an irresponsible decision? I'd rather allow women who make a slip-up here and there (maybe they were drunk and picked up at a bar and were too 'caught up' to use protection, or something) to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, than force an innocent child to suffer the consequences of their mother's mistakes forever, just on a matter of principle.

^good piont, but you can't tell people how to live their lives, it'll just piss them off. if someone has an unwanted pregnancy and she aborts, her dicision, if she keeps it, also her decision. if it's not absolutely needed then it is wrong, to me but maybe not to them. then agian who really does say whats right and whats wrong. but it would be wrong for the goverment to outlaw it because some women really need it.

druscilla; in rags:

Saying I found somewhere that totally applies:

If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?

^wow that is totally right

druscilla; in rags:

Saying I found somewhere that totally applies:

If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?

ZING!
I think this quote wins the argument, in my opinion.

Very, very true. If women can't be trusted to make their own decisions, how can anybody trust them to make decisions concerning the welfare and upbringing of a child, whether it be a planned or unwanted child? The quote applies to ALL women of child-bearing age.

I can't believe the US government is making noises about overturning Roe vs Wade. You very rarely every hear the Australian government making any comment on abortion, as the old fuddy-duddies down in Canberra know full well that the majority of the country believes more in their own right to do as they will with their bodies, than in the Bible or whatever religious excuse Americans want to pull.
I can't imagine abortion being outlawed - it's barbaric. In their scramble to win votes from the Bible-belt area of the US, do the politicians ever stop to think about the consequences of outlawing abortion?
The consequences would be horrific. Sure, go ahead and outlaw abortion - we still have coathangers and knitting needles, and women who are determined will go to backyard butchers to get the operation performed, in far less than satisfactory conditions, and the risks are absolutely unthinkable. Infection. Permanent damage to the reproductive organs. Haemorrhage. Death. And for what? So the government wins a few extra votes from religious zealots who make the choice to not use contraception, but don't impose their beliefs on the rest of us? I figure if they don't have a problem with people using condoms, then they shouldn't have a problem with abortion - if they disagree with it, go to church and pray for the evil souls who commit such 'sins', just don't participate in the action yourself, and leave the rest of us to decide what we want to do with our bodies.

Oh God, the American government makes me physically ill at times.
What in the name of God are they thinking, trying to ban abortion? Have they taken two minutes to think about the consequences of such action?
No. Once again, the fat cats in the shining towers make decisions without thinking it through, and the rest of the innocent public has to pay the price for their stupidity.
How in hell do these morons get into office?

Here goes my opinion on Abortion.

Abortion is wrong. It shouldnt be legal under any circumstances.
It is the act of killing a poor innocent person. Why should someone get away
with performing an abortion everyday but when someone murders they get a
life sentence? Why is abortion not considered murder?

If your not ready for the consequences, such as a baby, don't have sex. Simple as that.

Another highly debated issue: Rape victims
I know alot of you will probably hate me right now, but I don't think rape should
be an excuse to getting an abortion. Yes, it wasn't your fault, but neither was it
the baby's. Ok, so you dont want to keep it, give it up for adoption.
I've written a few reports on this, each like 5 pages long, but I'm not going to
type 5 pages worth of my opinion, so I summed it up.
Anyway, Abortion is wrong, no matter what.

ambriece:

Why is abortion not considered murder?

Because murder is defined as "unlawfully killing a person". And (lawfully, at least) embryos aren't people. They're not babies. To be considered a real live human being, you have to have brain function. Embryos don't have brain function. They hardly have brains. They can't feel pain. They don't know the difference between parasitically living off their mother and nothingness; but the mother certainly does. Why should an unconscious clump of cells have rights over a fully-developed, entirely conscious woman? Especially if that unconscious clump of cells was conceived with someone having sex with the fully-developed, entirely conscious woman against her will.

ambriece:

Another highly debated issue: Rape victims
I know alot of you will probably hate me right now, but I don't think rape should
be an excuse to getting an abortion. Yes, it wasn't your fault, but neither was it
the baby's.

It's not a baby.
Sure, if you deliver it and then shoot it, it's murder.
But a fetus is not a child.

The 1978 American Convention on Human Rights states, in Article 4.1, "Every person has the right to have his life respected. This right shall be protected by law and, in general, from the moment of conception."

I'd rather women be able to have access to abortions, than dump their babies outside hospitals, churches, or in rubbish tips (and yes, all three of these things have occurred in Australia over the last month or so - the body of the rubbish tip baby was found just a couple of days ago).
Granted, abortion's legal here so these women did have access to it, but maybe they couldn't afford it or otherwise couldn't get to the clinic.

ambriece:

The 1978 American Convention on Human Rights states, in Article 4.1, "Every person has the right to have his life respected. This right shall be protected by law and, in general, from the moment of conception."

That may be true, but in 1978, we didn't have the scientific and medical technology that we now possess these days. Therefore, we wouldn't have been aware that an embryo is a totally different thing from a human infant, and therefore doesn't count as a child, or murder. In addition to that, that statement would also mean that the mother has rights - and if she is unwilling or unable to carry, care for or provide for a child, then that law states she has the right to not have it.

^ agree, if people aren't going to want their baby's but can't get an abortion you don't think they'll just keep it and raise it the most loving way? if we outlawed abortions, crime rates will go up(unwanted children 89% of the time get into cromi and trouble), child abuse will go up, schools will be even MORE over crowded, ect.
they will find a way to get rid of it still. and most of those ways aren't adoption.

^ I totally agree with you. Making abortion illegal isn't going to make women carry their unwanted children, then suddenly turn into perfect, caring, loving mothers - they'll dump them, abuse them, abandon them...
As you said, not all women will adopt their children out. How many times have I heard of cases where a teen is too scared to tell anybody she's pregnant, so she can't get an abortion because she needs the money from her parents, so she has the baby, them kills it or just leave it to die in a rubbish bin or something?
Her inability to get an abortion didn't force her to become a caring, responsible mother - it made her a murderer. Therefore, abortion should be not only legal, but accessible to those who need it, because abortion isn't murder, and a far preferable situation to having a child shunted from foster home to foster home, always knowing its mother didn't want it.