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fabulous killjoy.
Moderator
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 46256 | August 27th, 2008 at 05:22pm
I PERSONALLY think that if you're a teenager and are perfectly capable of taking care of a baby the RIGHT way, you should be able to. Naturally, females are supposed to be having children once they are able to. That's how it used to work way way way back then. It's obviously not the same way now due to society's attitude, but there's a reason that females can get pregnant at such a young age.
I'm not saying if you think you're mature enough to have a baby to go get knocked up. Obviously not many girls are capable of taking care of a child, but I don't necessarily think it's bad, terrible, and that girls should be made fun of & shunned from everyone because of that. There are honestly worse things that a girl can do in her life.
A lot of the time, mistakes happen. For instance a condom ripping and then stopping, but somehow it happens. Can it be considered being irresponsible? The pair did indeed try to prevent pregnancy. A girl taking birth control and that small chance of getting pregnant happens? Irresponsible? If you're having unprotected sex, then yes, I'd call that irresponsible. But some things can't be helped. |
no face.
Awake and Unafraid
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 13483 | August 28th, 2008 at 09:54am In this city, theres alot of teen pregnancy.
the reason is because the girls are neglected by their parents, they're not given love. So they have a child with the hope of having something that relies on them, loves them and is cute but its a novelty to them, once they get sick of them. They get sick of them.
I think it requires a certain level of maturity, i mean if a 16 year old has a stable life, a job, qualifications, a solid place to live. Then by all means have a child.
as long as they realise the consequences.
Honestly, people should have to fill out forms and have an inspection to have kids, because people do it in australia to get the "baby bonus" which is a lump sum of money supposed to be spent on the baby, and its spent on alcohol.
Its horrible honestly, the child gets neglected.
I think a teenager doesn't have the stability to be a mother or father, because they themselves are still growing.
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Mindfuck
Always Born a Crime
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 5614 | August 28th, 2008 at 10:28am Bert McCracken:I think it requires a certain level of maturity, i mean if a 16 year old has a stable life, a job, qualifications, a solid place to live. Then by all means have a child. First of all, what person needs to have "qualifications" to have a child? And what 16 year old has qualifications anyway? Most 16 year olds are still in school, or they've dropped out of school.
Bert McCracken:Honestly, people should have to fill out forms and have an inspection to have kids, because people do it in australia to get the "baby bonus" which is a lump sum of money supposed to be spent on the baby, and its spent on alcohol.
Its horrible honestly, the child gets neglected. That's not how it is for all Australians who get the baby bonus. I'd say most people actually use it correctly, but the only reason why it seems most people use it incorrectly is because the media is always blowing it out of proportion. You always hear about people using the baby bonus for all the wrong things, but you seldom hear about people who actually use it for the right things. And there's a reason for that - people want to hear about wrongdoings in society because it's interesting 
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no face.
Awake and Unafraid
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 13483 | August 28th, 2008 at 11:24am Mindfuck:First of all, what person needs to have "qualifications" to have a child? And what 16 year old has qualifications anyway? Most 16 year olds are still in school, or they've dropped out of school.
I mean in the workforce, you wouldn't really want to have a child without any means of supporting it, and it costs alot of money, these days you need a degree to make coffee! It'd be so difficult supporting another life on a measly fast food wage
Mindfuck:That's not how it is for all Australians who get the baby bonus. I'd say most people actually use it correctly, but the only reason why it seems most people use it incorrectly is because the media is always blowing it out of proportion. You always hear about people using the baby bonus for all the wrong things, but you seldom hear about people who actually use it for the right things. And there's a reason for that - people want to hear about wrongdoings in society because it's interesting
Not really, where my friend lives, theres a family down the street, the husband whenever he gets out of jail they have a new baby, they have 8 kids now, my friends little sister went round and there were fleas all over the baby and a new wide screen tv  I'm not saying ALL people use it selfishly, i'm just saying its a bigger incentive for people to have kids and most of the teenagers see it as free money
theres a kid in my class whos 15 and is becoming a father... he's planning to upgrade his dirt bike and me and the teacher went off at him.
[/size] |
John St. John
Shotgun Sinner
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 7145 | August 28th, 2008 at 11:31am Bert McCracken:
[size=80 my friends little sister went round and there were fleas all over the baby and a new wide screen tv .[/size]
[/size] No offence, But why havn't you contacted the social services ( or whatever there called in your country) over this? |
no face.
Awake and Unafraid
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 13483 | August 28th, 2008 at 11:53am To Zanarkand:No offence, But why havn't you contacted the social services ( or whatever there called in your country) over this?
this has been done, all they do is clean up the dump of the house a little.
this city is so fucking slack.
its a vicious cycle, clean up the house, let it get dirty again..etc
not much us civilians can do, my friends mom is a social worker, and she's been trying. |
cherstinmayanneliee
Motor Baby
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 933 | August 28th, 2008 at 12:10pm uhg, this is pathetic |
questionable content
Always Born a Crime
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 5604 | August 28th, 2008 at 12:53pm gnihsams snikpmup.:I PERSONALLY think that if you're a teenager and are perfectly capable of taking care of a baby the RIGHT way, you should be able to. Naturally, females are supposed to be having children once they are able to. That's how it used to work way way way back then. It's obviously not the same way now due to society's attitude, but there's a reason that females can get pregnant at such a young age.
The whole point of living was to reproduce. That's how traits are passed down (in this case, reproducing early) and if your offspring survive, they will pass those traits on too. Thousands of years ago, when humans evolved, the average lifespan was 20, 30 years. Obviously you wouldn't wait to reproduce, after all, who would take care of your kids? (Particularly very young ones). Unlike today, grandparents most likely wouldn't be alive. |
Mindfuck
Always Born a Crime
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 5614 | August 28th, 2008 at 12:56pm cherstinmayanneliee:uhg, this is pathetic What is pathetic? Maybe a little more elaboration to add to discussion.... |
cherstinmayanneliee
Motor Baby
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 933 | August 28th, 2008 at 03:19pm this whole iscussion is pathetic. what gives other people the right to say is the girls that choose to give birth to a child isnt fit as a mother? sure, there are rare cases that say that teen parents arent fit, bt come on, its 2008. parents are getting younger and younger, and just cause youre under 20, doesnt mean youre unfit. believe me, ive seen more unfit parents that are in their 40s than the ones that are in their early 20s.
im a young mother, never have i regretted my decision and my daughter is the best thing to ever happen to me.
being a young mother isnt a bad thing. theres always gonna be rotten eggs, in anything you choose to do. ignore them. |
Tallulah
Admin
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 16777215 | August 28th, 2008 at 06:36pm My niece Sophie got pregnant at 14.
It was the last thing on earth I would have wished for her. But these things happen. She had been with her boyf for a year and had been using contraception which had sadly failed.
She gave birth to her son a week after her 15th birthday.
The shock was immense, but she coped. She has proved to us what a remarkable young woman she is.
She went back to school this year and finished her GCSE's which she passed really successfully and she is going back to school next month to start A-levels.
She is only 16. She is a mother to a one year old and is responsible and mature.
Not all teenagers are too young to cope with the responsibility of a child. I am 29 and I am too young to cope with a child. It's all about the individual, people shouldnt be so judgemental.
And as for the baby with the fleas on.... keep reporting them, over and over again. That is child abuse and has to be stopped. |
loki.
Bulletproof Heart
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 27342 | August 28th, 2008 at 07:20pm Tallulah; Schechter:She is only 16. She is a mother to a one year old and is responsible and mature. Good for her, then.
I think it all depends on the situation and the person, as many people have said.
If they have a solid foundation and are somewhat prepared, go for it.
Age is only a factor when you're in a school setting or something like that.
The girl that sits next to me in my English class is pregnant, and, in my opinion,
she's plenty mature enough to be able to raise a child in this world. I haven't
asked her if the father's going to play a role, because I don't want to pry.
Even if you have the baby and then put him or her up for adoption,
that at least shows some responsibility. It's better than leaving
them in a home where they're going to be neglected or ignored.
Girls that get pregnant at a young age need to be able to make smart decisions for the baby,
and leave themselves almost completely out of it.
Once you have a kid, you can't be selfish anymore.
That child is your responsibility.
Not your mom's.
Not the daycare's.
Yours.
Nobody's going to blame grandma or the girl at the daycare
for your kid's shitty homelife. They're going to blame the parents.
You have to be willing and able to step up to the plate and make the right choices. |
Go fuck yourself
Devil's Got Your Number
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Posts: 37823 | August 29th, 2008 at 02:56am Bert McCracken:[size=80]In this city, theres alot of teen pregnancy.
the reason is because the girls are neglected by their parents, they're not given love. So they have a child with the hope of having something that relies on them, loves them and is cute but its a novelty to them, once they get sick of them. They get sick of them. My school has a large teenage parent rate, in fact they have a special program for teen moms cuase there were just so many pregnant girls. At freshmen orrientation afew days ago the princepal stated that at my school over 50% of the students starting out in Freshmen will be goneby senior year. and about 20% of the girls in my class will get pregnant in and between freshmen and sophomore year and another 10% in Junior year and about another 5 to 15% in senior year. That is expecting about 35-45% of the girls in my class to ger pregnant in the next four years, and the rate of fathers went up dramatically. And also once in my youth group they did a survey and almost 85% of the guys age 14-18 have had at least one pregnancy scares.
Now it might be a variety of reasons why these rates are so high, but you can't just say it was one specific reason why some kids had sex, maybe they were just bored, maybe the girl had daddy issues, maybe she did want something to love. Now I don't condem teen moms at all. I think they are quite amazing and strong, if they are a fit parent and most of the teen moms I know are. But I don't know others that have had child services contact them and didn't care. There was this girl I knew and I was about 12 at the time she was 15, she already had a 4 year old daughter, at the time she wasn't much of a parent at all, she never took care of her, refused to hold her daughter, only ever yelled at her. the baby was taken care of by her grandma or by friends.
Bert McCracken:
I think it requires a certain level of maturity, i mean if a 16 year old has a stable life, a job, qualifications, a solid place to live. Then by all means have a child.
as long as they realise the consequences.
What 16 year old would be totally ready for a baby? in most people were it would be more acceptable for them to have a baby don't feel ready. i'm 14, I work in a nursery I have had alot of training and I have a job and income and I know how to change a diaper while getting the kid to smile instead of crying and I know how cpr and medical training and basically the nessicities of a kid, I'm not ready at all to have my own. It isn't an easy life, I don't know any 16 year old who said, "you know what, I feel ready I want a baby right now, even though I'm stil in high school" |
no face.
Awake and Unafraid
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 13483 | August 29th, 2008 at 07:07am My Dear Delirious:My school has a large teenage parent rate, in fact they have a special program for teen moms cuase there were just so many pregnant girls. At freshmen orrientation afew days ago the princepal stated that at my school over 50% of the students starting out in Freshmen will be goneby senior year. and about 20% of the girls in my class will get pregnant in and between freshmen and sophomore year and another 10% in Junior year and about another 5 to 15% in senior year. That is expecting about 35-45% of the girls in my class to ger pregnant in the next four years, and the rate of fathers went up dramatically. And also once in my youth group they did a survey and almost 85% of the guys age 14-18 have had at least one pregnancy scares.
Now it might be a variety of reasons why these rates are so high, but you can't just say it was one specific reason why some kids had sex, maybe they were just bored, maybe the girl had daddy issues, maybe she did want something to love. Now I don't condem teen moms at all. I think they are quite amazing and strong, if they are a fit parent and most of the teen moms I know are. But I don't know others that have had child services contact them and didn't care. There was this girl I knew and I was about 12 at the time she was 15, she already had a 4 year old daughter, at the time she wasn't much of a parent at all, she never took care of her, refused to hold her daughter, only ever yelled at her. the baby was taken care of by her grandma or by friends.
I was referring to this city, its the main cause because its like you stated kids are bored. But also the girls where I live are treated like shit, nearly every single one. They see the babies as toys rather than a life. And once the innocence of a helpless baby grows out of its cuteness and requires alot more attention. They lose interest and thats where social services come in.
There are cases though where the parenting is successful but unfortunately, the majority ruin it for the minority.
My Dear Delirious:What 16 year old would be totally ready for a baby? in most people were it would be more acceptable for them to have a baby don't feel ready. i'm 14, I work in a nursery I have had alot of training and I have a job and income and I know how to change a diaper while getting the kid to smile instead of crying and I know how cpr and medical training and basically the nessicities of a kid, I'm not ready at all to have my own. It isn't an easy life, I don't know any 16 year old who said, "you know what, I feel ready I want a baby right now, even though I'm stil in high school"
People have different mental states, I was assessed by a psychologist, I supposedly have the mind of a 25 year old. But its own personal decision in the end, if a 16 year old wants a kid she should at least be advised on the pros and cons of the situation. Personally I think when girls go into high school they should be warned by their mother about all these things. I don't think many kids realize what having a child entails. you with experience should know its hard to care for kids, now that all the time. Its a 24 hour job for the next 18 years of their life and it should be realized before creating the child. |
Cigarettes And Suicide
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 1725 | August 29th, 2008 at 07:38am Bert McCracken:
Well, you kind of just invalidated your whole argument there. Just because that one family down the road has eight kids and lives in squalor, doesn't mean the majority of people do that with the baby bonus.
The thing you guys don't seem to understand about the baby bonus, is this: it was NOT brought in as a lump sum of money in order for parents to care for a new child. Not at all. That's what Family Tax Benefit, Child Care Benefit, and Maternity Allowances are for (trust me on this, I have a one-year-old so I know the deal on childcare allowances better than half the employees @ Centrelink). The 'Baby Bonus' was in fact introduced by the government to entice people to have children. I'm not joking, look it up. With the rate of immigration, our ageing population and people not starting families in favour of a career, the government had to take drastic measures to encourage Australians to start breeding because our fertility rates were the lowest they'd been for decades.
The answer? 'Pop out a kid and we'll give you $3000, to spend as you wish'.
That's why I don't understand why everybody goes on about 'misuse' of the Baby Bonus. It wasn't even designed to be spent on the new baby, so why the hell should anybody care if somebody chooses to spend their (now) $5000 on a plasma TV or a new wardrobe?
It especially irks me when people crap on about how the $5000 should be in the form of vouchers or similar for baby stuff. I spent MY hard-earned savings from work on buying a crib, pram, baby clothes, nappies, etc BEFORE my daughter was born. What the hell would I do with $5000 worth of Baby Haven or Bay-Bee-Cino vouchers AFTER she's already been kitted out with everything she needs?
And, for that matter, when I have my second child, I will still have the pram, the crib, the car-seat, the clothes, and all the other bits and pieces from our first child, so again, what am I going to do with $5000 worth of vouchers? I want that $5000 to, say, pay bond on a larger home so we're not cramped into a small flat. For the record, the $4000 we received for Emily was actually spent on a new car (our old one was a total bomb and I considered it unsafe, so we bought a newer, safer car for her, basically) and buying my husband and I a couple of little treats (he got a PSP, I got a new pair of jeans) and the rest is still in the bank, gathering interest so that when Emily starts school, the fees and uniforms are paid for.
Anyway, that was totally off the topic of teen pregnancy, but I just wanted to point that out to anybody who was confused. |
Mindfuck
Always Born a Crime
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 5614 | August 29th, 2008 at 09:04am Cigarettes And Suicide:
The thing you guys don't seem to understand about the baby bonus, is this: it was NOT brought in as a lump sum of money in order for parents to care for a new child. Not at all.
Centrelink might disagree with you:
"Baby Bonus is a one-off payment to help with the extra costs of a new baby or adopted child."
Yes, it was initially seen to be some kind of incentive to have a child, or children. But the way it was targeted was so that the bonus was seen to be money which could help out the parents where the newborn was concerned.
And it doesn't just have to be physical things the money is spent on - I quite like the idea, personally, of setting that kind of money aside in a bank account for my child(ren). There are heaps of ways parents can spend that money, and if they choose to buy whatever they want with it I'm not personally going to judge them. But a lot of people do. Which is why you often hear of these 'misuse' stories in papers and on beat up shows like ACA and Today Tonight.
Also, former federal Families Minister Mal Brough states in this article here: "We've recognised that there is a concern for young parents who get a very large sum of money and that it may be misused... In some instances there have been concerns that the parent has, in fact, had others use that money on their behalf, not to the benefit of the child."
That article is from 2006, but you can see from it that the bonus wasn't just to entice people to have children. There was, and is, the belief that it is meant to be used to somewhat benefit the child. |
Bleeding Dry
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Posts: 1178 | August 29th, 2008 at 01:20pm In the city next to my town, there is a lot of teen pregnancy. I know this doesn't count for all of them, of course it doesn't, but a lot of them just do it because they didn't expect the outcome, and now they hate that they are "stuck" with these children, and they don't give them the proper support they need for growing up. This breaks my heart. |
Cigarettes And Suicide
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 1725 | August 30th, 2008 at 02:18am Mindfuck:Centrelink might disagree with you:
"Baby Bonus is a one-off payment to help with the extra costs of a new baby or adopted child."
Yes, it was initially seen to be some kind of incentive to have a child, or children. But the way it was targeted was so that the bonus was seen to be money which could help out the parents where the newborn was concerned.
And it doesn't just have to be physical things the money is spent on - I quite like the idea, personally, of setting that kind of money aside in a bank account for my child(ren). There are heaps of ways parents can spend that money, and if they choose to buy whatever they want with it I'm not personally going to judge them. But a lot of people do. Which is why you often hear of these 'misuse' stories in papers and on beat up shows like ACA and Today Tonight.
Also, former federal Families Minister Mal Brough states in this article here: "We've recognised that there is a concern for young parents who get a very large sum of money and that it may be misused... In some instances there have been concerns that the parent has, in fact, had others use that money on their behalf, not to the benefit of the child."
That article is from 2006, but you can see from it that the bonus wasn't just to entice people to have children. There was, and is, the belief that it is meant to be used to somewhat benefit the child.
I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day, it's people's own business what they do with the baby bonus, and if teenagers want to have babies so they can buy new clothes, that's nobody's business but their own - they're the ones who have to pay the price for their foolishness and it's their problem.
The thing is, Australia is one of the most backward nations on the planet when it comes to maternity leave - the law states that a mother is entitled to 12 months UNPAID leave to have a child, as long as she has been in her job for x amount of months (usually a minimum of 12). This is why nobody wants to have kids - who the hell can afford these days to take so much time off work, with no income, and afford all the extra things for a new baby, as well as keep up the mortgage payments etc?
They can't, so the government, rather than doing the smart thing and overhauling maternity leave entitlements, just said, 'Hey, have a baby and we'll give you x amount of money' (of course they say it's to help with the cost of a new baby, which is sensible, but duh the scheme is open to abuse).
If the government had simply reviewed maternity leave entitlements, they could have basically ensured that there was none of this 'dumb teenagers/single parents/dole bludgers popping out kids for cash' - the women who would be entitled to maternity leave are the ones who are of a suitable age and maturity, are already working and therefore continue receiving an income, so they can actually afford to take time off work.
It's the government's fault, but the rates of teen pregnancy have actually fallen since the bonus was introduced.
Which just proves not everyone's in it for a buck, and those who are were going to find a way around it anyway.
For instance, do you know how much the single parent pension pays out? I claimed it for a month or two to get a bit of extra cash and I can tell you this, if my husband ever left me and refused to pay child support, I'd still be set. It's a ridiculous amount of money and, if anything, it's THAT allowance which encourages teens to have kids. It's a good amount of money, it's steady, and comes with lots of perks (pension discounts for just about everything, etc).
As for Mal Brough's statement about 'other people using the money', well, it isn't given to you in a wad of cash. It's deposited in your bank account, and if these idiots go around handing out twenties to their buddies, or shouting their friends a night on the piss, that's their own stupid fault, really. I guess I just think of it as similar to, say, the road toll. Just because a whole bunch of idiots drive like maniacs and kill themselves in car accidents, should they ban EVERYBODY from driving? Or raise the driving age from 16 to 25 just because young drivers are 'more likely' to be killed in an accident?
These stories of baby bonus misuse are beat up, as you say, on shows like Today Tonight in order to get ratings. 98% of people I know have spent their bonus accordingly, and I guess it all depends on the individual, their needs as a family, etc as to what they spend their bonus on. Like I said, we spent ours on getting a car that was safe and reliable, which in turn led to my husband being able to get a much higher-paying job (he couldn't trust the old one to get him the distance day in, day out) which now means we're able to provide a much, much better life for our daughter than if we had gone out and bought baby stuff, or even put it in the bank for her future.
Unless you personally are aware of a family's circumstances, you don't really have the right to say where they should spend that money.
/rant. Sorry guys.
Back to teen pregnancies (although I did mention it a couple of times!!) |
John St. John
Shotgun Sinner
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 7145 | August 30th, 2008 at 08:43am Quote
I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day, it's people's own business what they do with the baby bonus, and if teenagers want to have babies so they can buy new clothes, that's nobody's business but their own - they're the ones who have to pay the price for their foolishness and it's their problem.
Except it's not just the parents who wold suffer for there foolishness, It's the baby aswell.
The only thing that should ever matter is the welfare of the child, wether or not the parent is 14 or 34. |
Cigarettes And Suicide
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 1725 | August 30th, 2008 at 09:21am To Zanarkand:Except it's not just the parents who wold suffer for there foolishness, It's the baby aswell.
The only thing that should ever matter is the welfare of the child, wether or not the parent is 14 or 34.
Of course I get that, I'm a mother myself so I know full well that my child is the absolute most important thing in my life, but what I'm saying is, if there IS a problem with teen pregnancy that is a direct result of the baby bonus, then RESPONSIBLE, MATURE people like myself should not be punished, and should not have to suffer because of the mistakes of a few bad eggs.
As soon as the baby bonus is brought up, naysayers start making demands that it should either be scrapped entirely, or given to new parents in the form of vouchers or the like, so that irresponsible morons can't go out and 'misuse' the money by buying plasma TVs or PS3s.
What I'M saying, is that if some idiot thinks, 'Oh sweet, I'll get knocked up and collect $5000 for myself', then why in hell should I be held responsible for their dumb decision? Of course kids are important, but the fact is, a LOT of people have kids and mistreat them, whether they have a financial incentive to have the kids or not. People will still have kids 'accidentally' or for whatever their reason, regardless - the baby bonus was only introduced a few years ago, yet unwanted children have been neglected and/or made to go without for decades.
And you've basically hit the nail on the head - whether the parent in question is a high school freshman or approaching middle age, their child should be receiving every privilege and every ounce of love, care and attention their parents can possibly give them. Some don't, and it's literally a crying shame, but how is changing or scrapping the baby bonus going to change that fact?
To that effect, it's really nobody's business what somebody does with their baby bonus. A girl I know spent $1350 on professional baby photos for her son. That's a huge chunk of money, and everyone I know thinks she was a total bimbo for doing that, but arguably, she spent it on the baby, so can you tell me that incidence was an appropriate use of some of her baby bonus? No? But it was spent on the baby, right, and that's all that matters, isn't it?
Do you get what I'm saying? |
