Religion

xxZalanortxx:

Ooohhh. Deb what you were just saying is highly similar to the ideas of Cosmicism found in H.P. Lovecrafts writings.

Shit, you're right! I'm a Lovecraftian! LOL What's funny is that my Mom is a firm believer that "Creationism" actually began with aliens interbreeding with the ape-like animals that were here (i.e. the "missing link." )

WHAT!? Hahaha! What is your mom on! Are you serious!

xxZalanortxx:

WHAT!? Hahaha! What is your mom on! Are you serious!

My mom didn't invent that theory, and that wasn't a very nice thing to say

Deb:

Right, but Hinduists and Buddhists don't set out to judge or impose their beliefs upon others, though.

I never said they did, I'm confused about how this relates to what I was saying or what xxZalanortxx

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How can He judge if He is choosing to leave people to their own devices? This logic doesn't make sense to me.

I didn't say he left people to their own devices, only that he gave people free will. He can still say 'ya know, what you did there was wrong'. Again not in a smiting vegneful way. I guess judging is the wrong word, I feel like God would be like a kind grandpa that's very disappointed in you and gently admonishes you.

xxZalanortxx:

WHAT!? Hahaha! What is your mom on! Are you serious!

If that's what you believe, then that's what you believe. You have no right to call someone crazy for their religious beliefs.

Faraday:

Deb:

Hinduists and Buddhists don't set out to judge or impose their beliefs upon others.

I never said they did, I'm confused about how this relates to what I was saying or what xxZalanortxx

You used those two religions as examples of practitioners who don't formulate pat responses to difficult questions, and I am pointing out that those religions don't preach, either.

Faraday:

I feel like God would be like a kind grandpa that's very disappointed in you and gently admonishes you.

Well, that's not what's being said by the Churches at all; they're spreading fear and hatred.

@ xxZalanortxx - stop spamming.

Deb:

You used those two religions as examples of practitioners who don't formulate pat responses to difficult questions, and I am pointing out that those religions don't preach, either.

I was just pointing out to xxZalanortxx that there are more answers than the ones she came up with.

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Well, that's not what's being said by the Churches at all; they're spreading fear and hatred.

I don't believe all that the Church says. I don't think anyone should blindly follow what they say. You should listen to what they have to say and then decide for yourself.

Deb:

Well, that's not what's being said by the Churches at all; they're spreading fear and hatred.

And you dont think that maybe you are generalizing a bit? All Christian churches do nothing but spread hatred? Really? I have been to many churches that do the exact opposite. That preach only of the love of God and of his compassion and forgiveness. Christianity has never been about fear or hatred. Some humans have made it into that, but the Bible clearly states that the most important thing in the world is love.

When the Pharisees asked Jesus which one of the Ten Commandments was the most important Jesus answered that the most important commandments were that we love God with all our hearts and that we love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Christianity has never been about hatred and fear. Some churches have twisted the Bible's message and turned it into something awful, but to say that the Church as a whole is doing nothing but, is a gross generalization .

Faraday:

I don't think anyone should blindly follow what they say. You should listen to what they have to say and then decide for yourself.

Right, but unfortunately, a bulk of our population fails to do this, and dangerous actions result from these negative messages.

Deb:

Right, but unfortunately, a bulk of our population fails to do this, and dangerous actions result from these negative messages.

I think it's getting better. My friend's parents are right wing religious crazies, but none of their children are hard core conservative, they're in the middle.

Faraday:

My friend's parents are right wing religious crazies, but none of their children are hard core conservative, they're in the middle.

But the parents are; those children just happened to turn out better; all three is quite the rarity. There is no way you can convince me that things are getting better when a man smoking outside his boyfriend's apartment during Pride! in NYC was jumped by four homophobes last month, and George Tiller was brutally murdered two months ago.

Deb:

But the parents are; those children just happened to turn out better; all three is quite the rarity. There is no way you can convince me that things are getting better when a man smoking outside his boyfriend's apartment during Pride! in NYC was jumped by four homophobes last month, and George Tiller was brutally murdered two months ago.

But are events like those the norm? I don't think so. The world is a generally crappy place, it's not all religion's fault. The people who commit crimes like that are the minority.

Faraday:

But are events like those the norm? I don't think so. The world is a generally crappy place, it's not all religion's fault. The people who commit crimes like that are the minority.

The norm? I don't know; Pride! is only once a year, and George Tiller was hardly the first of his profession to be murdered. In the case of these situations, the Church is being used as hammer and sickle. Is this the case in every brutal act? Of course not! However, the fact that such attitudes are being perpetuated by Church leaders makes the entire structure poisonous.

I'm sorry Deb. It's just that there seems to be minimal chance that extra-terrestrial life even inhabits planets in nearby systems alone. It seems extremely unlikely that they actually visited us already. Wow and that really wasn't the most appropiate thing to say when i am supporting what others may find even harder to fathom. I AM SO SORRY Could you PLEASE forgive me?

xxZalanortxx:

I'm sorry Deb. It's just that there seems to be minimal chance that extra-terrestrial life even inhabits planets in nearby systems alone. It seems extremely unlikely that they actually visited us already. Wow and that really wasn't the most appropiate thing to say when i am supporting what others may find even harder to fathom. I AM SO SORRY Could you PLEASE forgive me?

haha of course. Well, actually, heiroglyphics do seem to indicate that there might have been some sort of crash landing here to start us off, but of course that was millions of years ago now. In my personal opinion, it's a bit easier to swallow then the concept of some robed and bearded dude sitting around on a throne in the clouds, simultaneously hearing and seeing everything each one of us says and does, but only concerning Himself with Judeo-Christians. I'm not saying it's impossible, just more of a popular opinion, yet just as far-fetched.

Deb:

In my personal opinion, it's a bit easier to swallow then the concept of some robed and bearded dude sitting around on a throne in the clouds, simultaneously hearing and seeing everything each one of us says and does, but only concerning Himself with Judeo-Christians. I'm not saying it's impossible, just more of a popular opinion, yet just as far-fetched.

Your right, your idea of God is far-fetched, but only because your idea of God is not what God actually is. The robed bearded dude thing is ridiculous. God is a spirit, he doesnt look like an old man in white. God is sovereign, which means that nothing is outside his care or concern, which includes all people.

Don Ricalo:

I do not understand the need for people to box themselves into one particular set of rules, a(set of) God(s), a practice. It separates everyone into their individual groups and causes conflict between them. Why do we need to do this? I fail to see why people cannot simply have faith in something, a higher existence or afterlife etc, just have faith in something but not give it a name, a face, rules to get there, simply believe in that something. If there's no actual content to worship and believe in, what is there to cause conflict? You'd be free to believe in your own vision of that higher being and/or afterlife without fear of criticism from other groups with another idea.

Organized religion is all about cliques again. Clique-y behavior and the need to alienate others in order to make oneself feel better are unfortunate human qualities that aren't going to go away. The belief in a Higher Power of any sort (whether it's gods and goddesses, one God, forces of nature or the Clear) is simply a means of dealing with the fear of death, and this and of itself is harmless.

Don Ricalo:

I do not understand the need for people to box themselves into one particular set of rules, a(set of) God(s), a practice. It separates everyone into their individual groups and causes conflict between them. Why do we need to do this? I fail to see why people cannot simply have faith in something, a higher existence or afterlife etc, just have faith in something but not give it a name, a face, rules to get there, simply believe in that something. If there's no actual content to worship and believe in, what is there to cause conflict? You'd be free to believe in your own vision of that higher being and/or afterlife without fear of criticism from other groups with another idea.

Because just believing in a higher power doesnt bring any more meaning to existence then believing in nothing at all. Being part of a religion (any religion) is about faith, and about that faith giving you hope, meaning and purpose. People arent a part of religious groups simply because we like to be separated from those who are not religious. Thats a load of crap.

If there is no content to religion, and there is nothing to believe in, then life is pointless, meaningless, and worthless. Thats the truth. Without faith, hope, and meaning we are absolutely nothing. And we cant provide hope or meaning to ourselves, because without a higher being we are simply worthless loads of water and fat.

Faith brings purpose. Purpose brings hope. Hope enables us.

Those who are a part of a religion are not there to be in a "clique" and to be dominant over other who are not a part of that religion (at least i can say that for most who are a part of religion). Religion is crap. Its not about religion. Its about people believing that there has to be more to life then what our world provides (which is not much at all). We cant bring meaning to ourselves because we are flawed. Faith in something more then ourselves is what its about, because just living for yourself is bull. It will take you nowhere. Thats where faith in a higher power comes in. Its not about us. Its not about religion. Its not about a "clique". Its about knowing that this is not all there is, because what is, isnt enough. Not for any of us.

Deb is right about how almost all humans need some group to organize themselves into. A "clique" is in fact quite a good term for it. However, besides the need to to organize oneself into a group, another predominate reason was to control the people. Claiming their words were divine mandate would often ensure the complete obidience and respest from the several of the weak-minded peasents around when most religions were formed. Religious leaders, politicians, rulers, etc. would also be able to use it for an excuse to go to war with others. Kind of like Christian Conservatives and many Republicans used and warped Islam as an excuse to go to Iraq (that and oil of course).