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Cults, and Extreme Groups/Systems

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the original JULES
Demolition Lover
the original JULES
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November 2nd, 2006 at 02:21am
Some would argue this belongs in the Religion thread, however, a cult or an extremist group is quite different to a religion, or a religious structure.
Belonging to a cult, or a group with extreme beliefs, may result in what is believed to be martyrdom, or sacrifice.

I live in a small city, and lately, there have been a number of suicides, all related to a cult, based on a Myspace site.

There are about ten or so people involved, and I think about three or four have already committed suicide - or in their eyes, "sacrificed themselves."

So, now counsellors at my school have to keep a close watch on stuff going on at my school, in case it becomes an infatuation. Some of my friends knew the people who killed themselves, and have been having a rough time dealing with it.

Now, I pose the questions to you:
-Are there any ways to prevent cults from beginning, especially in teenage years?
-What do you think appeals to people to join such cults, or groups with extreme beliefs?
-Is it possible to maintain a regular, average life, while being in a cult?
-Is there a way to help people find their way out of cults?
-And do all cults/extremist groups pose a threat to the people involved, their lives, loved ones, and society in general?
Frozen
Jazz Hands
Frozen
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November 2nd, 2006 at 02:56am
-What do you think appeals to people to join such cults, or groups with extreme beliefs?

I think some people do it because they have nothing else to do with their lives and are sick of being normal!
Mud
Really Not Okay
Mud
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November 2nd, 2006 at 06:47am
Our Avenged Jules:
Now, I pose the questions to you:
-Are there any ways to prevent cults from beginning, especially in teenage years?
-What do you think appeals to people to join such cults, or groups with extreme beliefs?
-Is it possible to maintain a regular, average life, while being in a cult?
-Is there a way to help people find their way out of cults?
-And do all cults/extremist groups pose a threat to the people involved, their lives, loved ones, and society in general?


I think educating people about cults is the best way of preventing cults. But at the same time, people who are intelligent and well-read are the most likely to be sucked into a cult, so its really hard to know what to do about them.

I think there are many reasons why cults appeal initially: mystery, feeling different or in-the-know or a desire to believe that what they are told is true. Also, cults use mind games. They don't tell you the negative sides from the off - they sneak in, often as a proof of your trust in God/whatever else the cult is based on or a path to salvation.

I think people often believe that they are living a normal life while being part of a cult. But truly, I don't think so. If a person is practicing a little-known or relatively localised religion but is leading an other wise normal life, I would say that is simply a religion, not a cult.

The problem with helping people out of cults is that they often don't believe that they are part of a cult nor want to leave the cult. Such is the power of belief. A cult is a con. Some want money, some want power, some have other motives. But at the end of the day, its hard to convince someone who is being successfully conned that they are being conned. And further more, even in the face of evidence, people like to believe that they are cleverer and, thus, don't want to admit to themselves that they have been conned.

Some cults are out to get their members money, but on the whole, I think cults will have negative effects on their members.
Mud
Really Not Okay
Mud
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November 2nd, 2006 at 06:52am
Also, if anyone is interested, there is a very good fictional book called Blinded by the Light by Sherry Ashworth, written from the point of view of a young man getting drawn into a cult. It is a very interesting and, I found, quite frightening look at how people get drawn into cults and are persuaded to do things they otherwise would not.
voice4mygeneration65
Jazz Hands
voice4mygeneration65
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November 2nd, 2006 at 03:55pm
NULLIFY post
bloodredruby69
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bloodredruby69
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November 2nd, 2006 at 04:07pm
I think cults and fundamentalist are a product of our way of thinking. Everyone wants to do more, to be more outspoken, to do something to change the world. There are fundamentalists that do very good things.

But there are also fundamentalists who do horrible things. Because, in their minds, what they do is acceptable under their principles and beliefs. It's all about perspective.

Taking things to extreme happens for many things; religion, prosecution of criminals, purifying things around you. These fundamentalists form groups of similarly minded people, who end up fueling the fire and taking the act to a new high, a new extreme.

Unfortunately, I don't think that we'll ever be without cults.
BlackTangledHeart
Killjoy
BlackTangledHeart
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November 14th, 2006 at 08:46pm
Theres another good book out called Excaping the Fishers. Its about a young girl that gets sucked into a cult, and then has to fight her way once she realizes how far shes in.

I think why people join cults is because that they feel for once that people are like them and understand them. They are tired of being alone, and need to feel like they belong, and they believe that they can find it in a cult. cults are usually very tight-knit gruops. which brings me to the point that cults could probably be stopped if everyone was accepted by every one else. then there would be no need for others to search for the "missing piece of their lives", and finding it in cults.
MistressRhi
Motor Baby
MistressRhi
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November 14th, 2006 at 11:46pm
Cults are very dangerous and it's a worry that we have people in society today that have obsessive/compulsive/addictive/gullible personalities that get attracted to these cults or indeed are the people that create these cults.

i guess a want to dominate plays a part in cults as well, i mean having people who hang on your every word and dedicate their whole lives to serving you and making you "god" must be such a power rush - personally that kind of thing would freak me out
voice4mygeneration65
Jazz Hands
voice4mygeneration65
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November 14th, 2006 at 11:56pm
Right now in Civil Liberties we are learning about Cults. Today we discussed Jonestown, a place were a cult mass suicide/murder happened. I know this may seem random but the leader had BLACK eyes. No lie, and I am creeped out just thinking about it. Apparently, many parents were forced to inject their childern with lethal poison to kill them and if they didn't comply, their childern were taken away forcely and killed. After that happen many of those people who killed themselves at Jonestown whould have killed themselves later if they had survived due to what they were forced to do with their childern. In my class we then started a video about the Waco Texas standoff that lasted 51 days, the longest for law enforcement in United States history, which involved the Davdian Followers, David Koresh.
dream brother
Jazz Hands
dream brother
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November 15th, 2006 at 06:19am
whats so different about a cult and ordinary religion?
ordinary religion seems to be about the same to me it's all just letting people stop thinking for themselves
the anti-scenester
Motor Baby
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November 15th, 2006 at 08:40pm
I believe that cults have a right to exist. For example, my mother is in Narcotics Anonymous, which is certainly beneficial, and she considers it a cult.

Therefore, it all stems back to power. There is no good and evil, there is only power and responsibility. Those we consider evil have power but no responsibility or morals. Those we consider good have power AND responsibility. These cults that are "bad" are formed of misguided people who have no power and thus follow those who do, who are also misguided, becuase they have not been taught the difference betweeen right and wrong.
MistressRhi
Motor Baby
MistressRhi
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November 15th, 2006 at 11:59pm
^well she may define it as a cult but technically it's a help group. A cult from my understanding is where total obedience is required from the group of people to one person, they must do everything this person says and follow them everywhere, even into death. They must give up everything that is individual about themselves and think only of the leader.

that's my understanding anyway
the original JULES
Demolition Lover
the original JULES
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November 17th, 2006 at 06:14pm
dream brother:
whats so different about a cult and ordinary religion?
ordinary religion seems to be about the same to me it's all just letting people stop thinking for themselves


1. Religion:
people’s beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of God, a god, or gods, and divine involvement in the universe and human life

2. Cult:
extreme or excessive admiration for a person, philosophy of life, or activity
OR
a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided or unorthodox


There's quite a difference between the two.
dream brother
Jazz Hands
dream brother
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November 18th, 2006 at 12:15am
but i would consider all organised religion to be misgiuded as there is no proof of anything so therye doing the same thing as somebody in a cult just maybe not to the same extremes
bloodredruby69
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bloodredruby69
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November 18th, 2006 at 01:11am
See, but the extremes are what seperate cults and religions. There are religious groups that go too far, that step outside the lines and do horrendous things like murders, prosecution etc. But those people are called fundamentalists; they are so strict in following their religious beliefs that they don't necessarily use logic or cannot clearly see what they are doing.

Cults are groups of ritualistic worshipers, people that defer to someone or something as a higher or absolute power, and are not necessarily religious in nature. In doing so, they may believe in this person/supposed diety so much that they can easily be pursuaded to kill themselves, commit murder, go through horrendous ceremonies, steal, raid, persecute others, persuade others to join their cult, etc.

The only real tie between the two is that belief is needed in both situations.

Religion has its bad apples, sure, but for the majority its purpose is for enlightenment, salvation, whatever, while cults are very rarely focussed on something helpful or meaningful, as seen by the eyes of today's society.
the original JULES
Demolition Lover
the original JULES
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November 18th, 2006 at 03:46am
dream brother:
but i would consider all organised religion to be misgiuded as there is no proof of anything so therye doing the same thing as somebody in a cult just maybe not to the same extremes

You just mentioned the most obvious and (argumentally) important difference between a religion and cult.
voice4mygeneration65
Jazz Hands
voice4mygeneration65
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November 18th, 2006 at 10:41am
^ It is the extreme nature that seperates cults from religions. What causes the government to get involved is when they start to engage in illegal activities such as murder, child abuse, weapon stockpiling, suicide, drugs, etc.
death by plane;
Killjoy
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November 18th, 2006 at 02:34pm
I don't think cults are necessary, at all. Cults can get very extreme, and if you're in a cult long enough, it can occupy most of your time, and you can become very close-minded. Clubs or crews or whatever you want to call them are fine, but cults are a little overboard. I can understand if you obsess over something very deeply, but there's no need to create a cult for it. Someday, while being put in jail for performing violent acts with other members of your cult, you'll regret it.
dream brother
Jazz Hands
dream brother
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November 19th, 2006 at 12:11am
what about catholics involved in the persecution of so caled witches in the dark ages or the crusades or muslims currently involved in terrorism?
would that classify as religion gone wrong or as a cult becaue basicly back in the middle ages it was accepted to hold extreme religious beleifs and persecute people who didnt act the same way you did or beleived different?
cocaine.
Shotgun Sinner
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November 19th, 2006 at 03:28am
^^ That's the most ridiculous thing I've evr heard.
Terrorism should not, and cannot, be compared to a cult.

And not all people involved in terrorism are Muslims, just as not all Muslims are involved in terrorism. That's almost racial discrimination.

Cults are so extreme what the girls from the cult Jules mentioned (we live in the same city) thought what they were doing was sacrificing themselves to the person that the cult was based around.

People in religion do not sacrifice themselves or anyone for that matter.

I do understand what you are saying, like religion and cluts can be classifed as almost the same.
But they really aren't.
They are two different defenitions, with two different meanings.