Don't have an account? Create one!

Vegetarianism/veganism.

AuthorMessage
Amy-Faye
Jazz Hands
Amy-Faye
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Posts: 313
September 21st, 2008 at 03:01pm
DIE! DIE! DIE!:
Im just ganna copy/paste
Veganism is totally unnatural. There is a reason Frankie is always sick XDD

If you have to calculate your diet to stay alive, it's probably wrong. We have cainine teeth for a reason.


Im ok with vegans themselves unless they are overly preachy or with PETA. I just think the idea of Veganism is insane.

*Can see a mass amount of people ready to attack me for this post


Franks vegitarian, not vegan.

I think vegans a bit extream too. I mean yeah i'm a vegitarian. But whats the point in giving up dairy products too?

cainine teeth arent just for meat, you use them to chew other hard foods.
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Bleeding on the Floor
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1067
September 21st, 2008 at 03:23pm
wow, thats an old post
I was kidding, shock shock

& Canine teeth are designed specifically for meat. You find me a herbivore who has a pair. they are useful with harder foods, but are intended for meat.
blow
Bleeding on the Floor
blow
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 1137
September 21st, 2008 at 03:25pm
Amy-Faye:

Franks vegitarian, not vegan.

It doesn't really matter what Frank is. Although him being vegetarian and having to tour all the time probably does have an adverse effect on his help. I'm betting he doesn't take all the supplements/vitamins that he should.

Quote
I think vegans a bit extream too. I mean yeah i'm a vegitarian. But whats the point in giving up dairy products too?

I always thought that people who are vegan are more against how the animals are treated rather than thinking that eating dairy is wrong.

Quote
cainine teeth arent just for meat, you use them to chew other hard foods.

No they aren't. You canine teeth are for ripping and tearing meat. (you can use them to bit into other foods, but they are made for meat) All animals that naturally eat meat have canine teeth. You do not chew with your canine teeth.
fabulous killjoy.
Moderator
fabulous killjoy.
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 46256
September 21st, 2008 at 03:30pm
DIE! DIE! DIE!:
wow, thats an old post
I was kidding, shock shock
She wasn't attacking you at all, why are you getting all defensive and rude?
Amy-Faye
Jazz Hands
Amy-Faye
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Posts: 313
September 21st, 2008 at 03:34pm
Wow, guys calm down. I was just stating my opinion on the matter.

And i know that cainine teeth were designed to chew meat. Most probably from back when that was teh only way people knew how to survive.

I think it kinda does matter if franks vegan or vegitarian. Because people were saying he's a vegan when he's not, i was just correcting.
blow
Bleeding on the Floor
blow
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 1137
September 21st, 2008 at 03:53pm
Amy-Faye:
And i know that cainine teeth were designed to chew meat. Most probably from back when that was teh only way people knew how to survive.

I'm just nit picking but canines are for ripping and tearing, not chewing. Canine teeth evolved to be that way because that's what carnivorous or omnivorous animals where naturally eating.

Quote
I think it kinda does matter if franks vegan or vegitarian. Because people were saying he's a vegan when he's not, i was just correcting.

Whether Frank is vegetarian or vegan I don't think it really has much relevance to the discussion.

To introduce a new thing:
What do you all think of peco-vegetarians and pollo-vegetarians?
Are they vegetarians at all?
Is it just as bad as eating all meat?
Mindfuck
Always Born a Crime
Mindfuck
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 5614
September 21st, 2008 at 09:34pm
DIE! DIE! DIE!:
& Canine teeth are designed specifically for meat. You find me a herbivore who has a pair. they are useful with harder foods, but are intended for meat.
Hippopotamuses Shifty2

Their canine teeth are used, mainly amongst males, for fighting amongst themselves. Hippos are herbivores. So you see that canines aren't just used for meat.

And indeed, our human canine teeth are no where near as sharp as other omnivores' and carnivores' canine teeth. Canine teeth in carnivores such as dogs and wild cats etc. are used to killing their meat. We don't kill our meat with our teeth; they're definitely not sharp or powerful enough.

I agree that canines in humans are used to help eating meat - but canines are used for tearing and ripping food in general, not just meat. In fact, I would suggest that our (quite blunt and human) canines are more of a help when eating fruits and nuts rather than meat, only because us humans do not have to go through the process of killing the meat with our teeth and then ripping and eating the flesh from the bone raw (which is what wild dogs and other carnivores / omnivores would do).

Even though I am a vegetarian, do not think I have a problem with eating meat. I am only pointing out that the overused argument from non-vegetarians that "humans have canines therefore we were made to eat meat" is kind of flawed logic, because our canines were not just made for eating meat, but for eating tough food in general.
Chantal
Bleeding on the Floor
Chantal
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Posts: 1015
September 21st, 2008 at 11:26pm
Mindfuck:

I am only pointing out that the overused argument from non-vegetarians that "humans have canines therefore we were made to eat meat" is kind of flawed logic, because our canines were not just made for eating meat, but for eating tough food in general.


Completely agreed. Foods like apples are prime examples of how canine teeth could be used in other ways than eating meat.

Eponine:
^Well for a baby a vegetarian diet is not healthy at all.


I'm a member of a vegetarian/vegan forum, and I know several mothers on that forum who have raised their children vegetarian/vegan and their children are completely healthy. I also offer this information from a non-biased source:

Quote


A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, use of fortified foods or supplements can be helpful in meeting recommendations for individual nutrients. Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.


Amy-Faye:

Franks vegitarian, not vegan.

I think vegans a bit extream too. I mean yeah i'm a vegitarian. But whats the point in giving up dairy products too?

cainine teeth arent just for meat, you use them to chew other hard foods.


Just to be informative-There are generally three main reasons why people go vegan. The first is because the major egg/dairy industry inflicts much animal abuse to egg chickens and dairy cows.
Health is another.
The third is the principle of animal rights, which I am an advocate of. It's the idea that animals are not ours to use for food,clothing,entertainment,medical/cosmetic research/ect because they can't submit their permission to be used this way and therefor any use of them is exploitation. It's a lot more complicated than that-there are many many books written on the subject-but that's the idea in it's simplest form.
Chantal
Bleeding on the Floor
Chantal
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Posts: 1015
September 21st, 2008 at 11:29pm
dp
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Bleeding on the Floor
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1067
September 22nd, 2008 at 04:37am
It;s possible to raise an infant vegan, but it's risky and dangerous. Many parents arn't articulate enough in their diets and as a result, there are hundreds of reports a year of baby deaths due to veganism all over the world. I personally don't know why someone would risk their child's health because of their convictions, but some people are just that stuck on their beliefs I guess.
Once again, Veganism is NOT natural, and this is just another example of it.

I know veg families that have raised their child giving them every option (meat, dairy, etc) until they are old enough to sustain themselves on their own and make a choice. I have to agree with this: your morality doesn't need to be your child's, nor should it put your child at risk. Opening them up to every possibility is the best answer, as it is with anything (politics, religion, etc)
Chantal
Bleeding on the Floor
Chantal
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Posts: 1015
September 22nd, 2008 at 10:39am
DIE! DIE! DIE!:
It;s possible to raise an infant vegan, but it's risky and dangerous. Many parents arn't articulate enough in their diets and as a result, there are hundreds of reports a year of baby deaths due to veganism all over the world. I personally don't know why someone would risk their child's health because of their convictions, but some people are just that stuck on their beliefs I guess.
Once again, Veganism is NOT natural, and this is just another example of it.

It's just as risky and dangerous to raise a omnivore child without teaching him about proper nutrition.Watch Morgan Spurlock's Supersize Me and you'll see what I mean. There are good and bad aspects of both lifestyles. If your going to argue that veganism is not natural because of the health risks, than you could just as easily say an omnivorous diet isn't natural(I don't believe that to be true, I'm just saying).You can't exclude the millions of cases of heart disease and obesity caused by McDonald's every year. Those baby deaths had nothing to do with veganism-they had to do with irresponsible parenting.

Quote
I know veg families that have raised their child giving them every option (meat, dairy, etc) until they are old enough to sustain themselves on their own and make a choice. I have to agree with this: your morality doesn't need to be your child's, nor should it put your child at risk. Opening them up to every possibility is the best answer, as it is with anything (politics, religion,
etc)


By raising a baby omnivore from the minute its born is a moral choice just as much as veganism. Your just as much making a moral choice for you child this way than if you raised him vegan-your teaching him that eating meat is morally acceptable. Therefor, your still making your morality your child's, you just doing it in the norm fashion. Therefor it is not looked at as a choice-it is looked at as the only way to go.

The fact of the matter is children can't make all decisions for themselves. You can't tell a two year old to decide what religion he wants to be, he would probably just choose the church that his friend went to. A parent has to make decisions for their child until certain point in life about what is right and wrong for a child to do-moviess,tv,internet websites,music that they can listen to, how much exercise they get, what church they go to when they are younger,and diet.
blow
Bleeding on the Floor
blow
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 1137
September 22nd, 2008 at 03:33pm
Yes;Indeed;True:
It's just as risky and dangerous to raise a omnivore child without teaching him about proper nutrition.Watch Morgan Spurlock's Supersize Me and you'll see what I mean. There are good and bad aspects of both lifestyles. If your going to argue that veganism is not natural because of the health risks, than you could just as easily say an omnivorous diet isn't natural(I don't believe that to be true, I'm just saying).You can't exclude the millions of cases of heart disease and obesity caused by McDonald's every year. Those baby deaths had nothing to do with veganism-they had to do with irresponsible parenting.

While that may be true, I would say that it's much more risky to raise your child vegan than on a normal diet. Millions of children have heart disease and/or obesity, but millions of kids don't have those kind of health problems. It would definitely take extra work on the part of the parents to raise a child vegan, but most parents don't want to do that extra work, hence the infant deaths.

Quote
By raising a baby omnivore from the minute its born is a moral choice just as much as veganism. Your just as much making a moral choice for you child this way than if you raised him vegan-your teaching him that eating meat is morally acceptable. Therefor, your still making your morality your child's, you just doing it in the norm fashion. Therefor it is not looked at as a choice-it is looked at as the only way to go.

The fact of the matter is children can't make all decisions for themselves. You can't tell a two year old to decide what religion he wants to be, he would probably just choose the church that his friend went to. A parent has to make decisions for their child until certain point in life about what is right and wrong for a child to do-moviess,tv,internet websites,music that they can listen to, how much exercise they get, what church they go to when they are younger,and diet.

Raising a baby with an omnivorous diet is not a moral choice. It's natural. Humans are naturally omnivorous. And as long as the baby is getting a healthy diet I don't think it matters. However with a vegan diet I think it's much easier for a baby to not get the nutrients it needs.
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Bleeding on the Floor
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1067
September 22nd, 2008 at 04:57pm
Eponine:
Yes;Indeed;True:
It's just as risky and dangerous to raise a omnivore child without teaching him about proper nutrition.Watch Morgan Spurlock's Supersize Me and you'll see what I mean. There are good and bad aspects of both lifestyles. If your going to argue that veganism is not natural because of the health risks, than you could just as easily say an omnivorous diet isn't natural(I don't believe that to be true, I'm just saying).You can't exclude the millions of cases of heart disease and obesity caused by McDonald's every year. Those baby deaths had nothing to do with veganism-they had to do with irresponsible parenting.

While that may be true, I would say that it's much more risky to raise your child vegan than on a normal diet. Millions of children have heart disease and/or obesity, but millions of kids don't have those kind of health problems. It would definitely take extra work on the part of the parents to raise a child vegan, but most parents don't want to do that extra work, hence the infant deaths.

Quote
By raising a baby omnivore from the minute its born is a moral choice just as much as veganism. Your just as much making a moral choice for you child this way than if you raised him vegan-your teaching him that eating meat is morally acceptable. Therefor, your still making your morality your child's, you just doing it in the norm fashion. Therefor it is not looked at as a choice-it is looked at as the only way to go.

The fact of the matter is children can't make all decisions for themselves. You can't tell a two year old to decide what religion he wants to be, he would probably just choose the church that his friend went to. A parent has to make decisions for their child until certain point in life about what is right and wrong for a child to do-moviess,tv,internet websites,music that they can listen to, how much exercise they get, what church they go to when they are younger,and diet.

Raising a baby with an omnivorous diet is not a moral choice. It's natural. Humans are naturally omnivorous. And as long as the baby is getting a healthy diet I don't think it matters. However with a vegan diet I think it's much easier for a baby to not get the nutrients it needs.


Not to mention, raising a baby who has a full range of foods they eat is a lot more open of an option then raising a baby veg. If you raise a child eating all types of foods, then they are better set up to make a choice themselves later. This is not to say that you couldn't have a talk with them about how you feel about it when they are ready, but I think A child should be introduced to every option possible to further live their lives.
Ilovehellokitty
Killjoy
Ilovehellokitty
Age: -
Gender: -
Posts: 5
September 22nd, 2008 at 07:13pm
Oh my, there are like a million people out there that do that.
it's so immature.

-my boyfriend even did that to me a few days ago actually.
and then we got kicked out of the resturant because i hit his hand,
while he was waving a burger in my face, and it flew across the room. xpp

♥the horror of her; haunting michael jackson xpp.
Mindfuck
Always Born a Crime
Mindfuck
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 5614
September 22nd, 2008 at 08:01pm
alex fucking andra:
Oh my, there are like a million people out there that do that.
it's so immature.

-my boyfriend even did that to me a few days ago actually.
and then we got kicked out of the resturant because i hit his hand,
while he was waving a burger in my face, and it flew across the room. xpp

♥the horror of her; haunting michael jackson xpp.
Excuse my ignorance, but - what on Earth are you talking about? Neutral
What's immature? If you're referring to an earlier post, then quote it otherwise it's quite confusing.
Chantal
Bleeding on the Floor
Chantal
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Posts: 1015
September 22nd, 2008 at 09:10pm
Eponine:

While that may be true, I would say that it's much more risky to raise your child vegan than on a normal diet. Millions of children have heart disease and/or obesity, but millions of kids don't have those kind of health problems. It would definitely take extra work on the part of the parents to raise a child vegan, but most parents don't want to do that extra work, hence the infant deaths.

But you see that we still keep coming back to the parents. Those baby deaths did not have any thing to do with a vegan diet itself, as you can see in my above post says a well-planned vegan diet is perfectly acceptable for babies. The only fault here is that parents were not doing their part to feed their children with proper nutrition. The vegan diet itself is not to blame, but the parents and how they conducted the vegan diet when applying the lifestyle to their children.

Quote

Raising a baby with an omnivorous diet is not a moral choice. It's natural. Humans are naturally omnivorous. And as long as the baby is getting a healthy diet I don't think it matters. However with a vegan diet I think it's much easier for a baby to not get the nutrients it needs.

It becomes a choice the minute you give an alternative. If no such concept like veganism existed and an omnivorous diet was the only option, than omnivorism would not be a choice. But the minute someone else puts a different option on the table,aka veganism, you have to choose. The vast vast majority of people do choose omnivorism because, as you said, an omnivorous diet is natural(I said natural, not right. I believe there is a difference, but that's for a different conversation) and they have been taught that it is perfectly and morally acceptable to be omnivorous.

DIE! DIE! DIE!:


Not to mention, raising a baby who has a full range of foods they eat is a lot more open of an option then raising a baby veg. If you raise a child eating all types of foods, then they are better set up to make a choice themselves later. This is not to say that you couldn't have a talk with them about how you feel about it when they are ready, but I think A child should be introduced to every option possible to further live their lives.


I personally have never felt limited with my eating options when I became vegan. There are literally hundreds of vegetables and fruits and nuts and seeds and thousands of things you can make from all of them. Add on top of that fortification, and you hardly need supplements. Veganism is not limiting, in fact its more liberating because your taking the focus of your diet off from all the regular food all around you, and putting the focus on to a whole new world of food most people don't even know exists. I didn't know how cook or where to buy about 80% of the food I eat before I became vegan, and now I can get much more creative and tasty meals and I'm not limited to the same stuff everybody else thinks are the only options. I learned how to get much more satisfying meals from restaurants, because I've learned how to customize my meals and work with waiters to get things that are tasty and nutritious. I've even pleased chefs at nicer restaurants and sent the whole kitchen into a frenzy because everyone was excited that they got to make a completely vegan meal, instead of the same stuff over and over again. Veganism is as satisfying and healthy as an omnivorous diet. I get all my nutrients without even trying by just eating a wide range of foods.
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Bleeding on the Floor
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1067
September 22nd, 2008 at 10:49pm
Eating a range of foods is really a person's choice. I personally come from a full on omnivore family, and I know tons of dishes that nobody has ever heard of. A lot of it depends on whether you have the money/have been raised under a roof with a cook, and not a mother who gets a steak out of a box and heats it.

Realistically, omnivores have a better range of foods, and I think it's owed to a person's children that they are allowed to see every option as a young one and make the CHOICE to cut out animal products by their own set of morals. No use sheltering a child and holding a chance of risking their health at the same time. You seem to be arguing that since you didn't have as many options you had to go hunt for more, where as you can be full of omnivore options, and (hopefully) have a parent that can cook. Many vegans don't "eat a wide range of food" and, just like many omnivore people, stick to the norm. Your experience means nothing, really.
Chantal
Bleeding on the Floor
Chantal
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Posts: 1015
September 22nd, 2008 at 11:43pm
DIE! DIE! DIE!:


Realistically, omnivores have a better range of foods, and I think it's owed to a person's children that they are allowed to see every option as a young one and make the CHOICE to cut out animal products by their own set of morals


You don't seem to be understanding me.When it comes to this, a parent has to choose their children's diet. There is no way out of it. It's not like religion where you can just not go. You can't just not eat. If, like your suggesting,a parent never fed their child vegan, they would be choosing omnivorism for them. By choosing omnivourism, they are autimatically choosing a lifestyle, the same as if you raised a child vegan. If you don't do one thing, you're getting the other by default. Either way, a parent has to choose for the child-there is no letting them experience everything because if they let them eat all food, they are autimatically choosing omnivorism.


Quote
Many vegans don't "eat a wide range of food" and, just like many omnivore people, stick to the norm. Your experience means nothing, really.


I would love to here where you are meeting all these tons and tons of vegans that are helping you form your opinions about their diet. Your opinions seemed to be formed on media steryotypes, not personal experience or reliable sources. My experience may mean nothing, but at least I have it to offer. But I have met many vegans/vegetarians over the internet, and everyone of them(at least 30-40 ppl) have been well educated on nutrition. One of them has even defeated nutritionists in arguments over their diets. They have plenty of variety in their diets(one man i met created a 5 meat/3 cheese all vegan pizza). I can point you to food logs on forums that are 30 pages long filled with tons of variety. I have met several mothers online who have raised their children vegan. Their children are perfectly healthy. They eat vegan cakes for birthday parties instead of regular ones. They have veggie burgers for dinner. Their lives are not spent in and out of the hospital because of anemia and protein deficiency.

By the way- I googled your big vegan baby death. All I got were completely biased sources,completely irresponsible parents, and comments made on the articles by completely ignorant people. The articles were literally trying to argue with the American Dietetic Association and the National Center for Nutrition and Dietetics, both which state well planned vegan diets are fine for babies. If the articles your basing your arguments on argue against both of the associations-the mecca of nutritional information-then I don't trust them at all.
ixneverxlovedxyou
Killjoy
ixneverxlovedxyou
Age: -
Gender: -
Posts: 4
September 26th, 2008 at 04:20pm
I'm a vegetarian, I mean I don't mind if people eat meat around me, I just feel that some of the ways that they kill animals is inhumane, my diet hasn't been altered other than the I stopped eating meat part but that's it.
magii_mcrmy
Killjoy
magii_mcrmy
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 20
September 26th, 2008 at 10:36pm
I am a vegetarian (what with my health and keeping the growing of teendom going smoothly I eat fish but I will stop that as soon as I can) because I am opposed to animal cruelty and what goes on in the market of animal-based foods. I am not a vegan because I know the way animal's bodies work, but as soon as I get a house with land I intend to raise my own chickens and maybe even my own cows and that way I will know the animals I get my food from are not being mistreated. Its my own choice, I don't feel the need to preach vegetarianism to people, much like my religeon. PS- It is hug a vegetarian day today, so virtual huggage to all you vegetarian guys out here! Smile