Homosexual Rights.

Our Avenged Jules:

Okay, I suggest, before you even CONSIDER posting in this thread, you read this:

The last thread was locked and deleted due to:
-Slight spam
-Personal attacking
-Most of all; NO DISCUSSION.

In case you haven't noticed, this thread is situated in the DISCUSSION BOARD. Therefore, it is ESSENTIAL you DISCUSS your opinions.
I will NOT tolerate people simply saying, "LOVE IS LOVE" in response to why homosexual marriages should be legalised.
Because, although that might be your opinion, it is a tiresome excuse.

Here are some key points you can discuss in this thread:
-Consider the statement, "LOVE IS LOVE". If this statement is true, why should it be applied in order to legalise homosexual marriages?
LOVE IS LOVE can also be applied to incestual relationships, as well as animal/human relationships and paedophiliac relationships.
Get my gist?
-Why do you believe homosexual marriages AREN'T ALREADY LEGALISED in most countries?
-What consequences does legalising homosexual marriages have on SOCIETY?
-And what are your views on homosexual couples adopting children? Does this provide complications from the child's point of view?
-In what ways - APART FROM SOCIAL DISCRIMINATION (such as public disgrace) - are homosexuals degraded by the government?

These are only SOME topics you may like to discuss.
But, PLEASE elaborate your answers!

Apart from what Jules has said, anyone who quotes a person and does not add anything underneath will have their post deleted and a warning given. This has already been established in the rules.

The "love is love" arguement has been banned.
Anybody who says love is love will be given a warning.
We need actual ground to stand on.

Thank you.

I support gay rights and gay marraige, aswell.
If you're in love with someone, then you're in love. Whatever gender they are, doesn't really matter. You don't fall in love with someone because of their gender anyway, you fall in love with them because of their personality.
What's so wrong with a human being, loving another human being ?

I don't have a problem with gay marraige, I support gay rights. People can do whatever they want and love whoever they want. It doesn't matter if two people have the same gender.

-Consider the statement, "LOVE IS LOVE". If this statement is true, why should it be applied in order to legalise homosexual marriages?
LOVE IS LOVE can also be applied to incestual relationships, as well as animal/human relationships and paedophiliac relationships.
Get my gist?
I don't think it should be applied to legalise homosexual marriages, for the simple reason that it could be applied to an incestual relationship or animal/human relationship. Wouldn't like it if your dad left your mum and married next door's cat, would you?
I think homosexual marriage is fine. But love isn't just "love". A better statement would be "it's unfair that heterosexual people can get married and homosexual people can't". There would have to be the same rules (age limits, no incestual relationships) as there is with heterosexual marriage.
-Why do you believe homosexual marriages AREN'T ALREADY LEGALISED in most countries?
Because it isn't tradition. There have always been heterosexual marriages, and that is what people are used to.
-What consequences does legalising homosexual marriages have on SOCIETY?
Well, it would make a lot of people happy. Speaking of society in general, I'm not sure.
-And what are your views on homosexual couples adopting children? Does this provide complications from the child's point of view?
Well, I would say, no. Apart from other kids who think there is something wrong with it. However, it could be argued that kids will do better with both a male and female "parent" figure in their life. Kids will find it easier to talk to someone of their own sex, I think.

I am against Gay Marriage (as definable by a Christian/Religious ceremony taking place in a Church/Religious building) when the religious authorities do not wish for said marriage to take place. If you can find a church that will accept that, then good for you, I have no problems. Remember; churches do not allow heretosexual atheists, agnostics, muslims, whoever, to marry in their buildings. And as long as any one church feels obligated to deny a homosexual couple from being married, then I will respect that.

Still, the government has no right to change religion, and religion has no right to change the government, so as long as the Church doesn't allow gay marriages, I am against all government benefits for religious marriages. There should be a total separation.

Civil unions, on the other hand?
Yeah. Perfect solution. Every couple hould have access to one regardless of orientation, and a Civil Union should come with all the same marital rights, just without it being granted in a Church.

-Consider the statement, "LOVE IS LOVE". If this statement is true, why should it be applied in order to legalise homosexual marriages?
LOVE IS LOVE can also be applied to incestual relationships, as well as animal/human relationships and paedophiliac relationships.
Get my gist?
Hmmm... Very good argument points. I think that homosexual marriage is a far more open situation than human/animal or incestual relationships. Homosexuality is simply the ability to love one of the same gender.
Although I realize incestual love can be love, too, I believe it will be far more appauling to society for two cousins to get married than two guys, because homosexuality is far more common nowadays.
I believe that human/animal relationships are more sexual than love. I have yet to hear of someone claiming to be in love with an animal.
With paedophilia relationships, it really depends on age-difference in my eyes. I mean, I have a 14 year old friend who's in love with a 20-some year old guy. Hey, I don't object to that.
-Why do you believe homosexual marriages AREN'T ALREADY LEGALISED in most countries?
[color=redI think homosexual marriages are not legalized already because a lot of people are fighting the fact that homosexuality is becoming more wide in range.[/color]
-What consequences does legalising homosexual marriages have on SOCIETY?
Society is lightening their ideas on homosexuals because it is becoming more seen lately. I think discrimination would be the most consequence there will be.
-And what are your views on homosexual couples adopting children? Does this provide complications from the child's point of view?
I think a homosexual couple adopting a child is no different from a heterosexual couple adopting a child. I believe that most children will just be happy to have parents, and they won't judge. Although, it has been televised that a lot of options are closed because of parental judgement on another childs parents (such as important places in school clubs)
-In what ways - APART FROM SOCIAL DISCRIMINATION (such as public disgrace) - are homosexuals degraded by the government?
Truely, they aren't really degraded in other ways that I know of.

"-LOVE IS LOVE can also be applied to incestual relationships, as well as animal/human relationships and paedophiliac relationships."

Perhaps I misread, but is that to imply that gay marriage would lead to pedophilia and beastiality? It's not the same in the slightest way. I don't understand how you could even attempt to comapare the two.

xXGerry_BerryXx:

"-LOVE IS LOVE can also be applied to incestual relationships, as well as animal/human relationships and paedophiliac relationships."

Perhaps I misread, but is that to imply that gay marriage would lead to pedophilia and beastiality? It's not the same in the slightest way. I don't understand how you could even attempt to comapare the two.

Yep, you did misread.
I never said anything about comparing homosexual relationships to incest or paedophilia.
I said that the general phrase, "LOVE IS LOVE" can be applied to many different situations - such as paedophilia, incest and beastiality.
In the old thread, people kept saying that "love is love" and that's why homosexuals should be allowed marriage.
But if that's the case, that means brothers and sisters should be able to get married, and people should be allowed to marry animals, and old men should be able to marry eight-year-old girls.

Vicious.:

-Consider the statement, "LOVE IS LOVE". If this statement is true, why should it be applied in order to legalise homosexual marriages?
LOVE IS LOVE can also be applied to incestual relationships, as well as animal/human relationships and paedophiliac relationships.
Get my gist?

Yes, but there are logical reasons for why the above three you mentioned are not legal.

-Incest is also banned for medical reasons, I think. If an incest couple have a child, it might [probably] end up with lots of mental medical issues.
-With Animal/Human relationships, I can't see how its possible to actually have the wedding ceremony. I mean, how does anyone know the animal "accepts" to be married to the person.
-Peadophilia is only considered paedophilia when the child is underage, and I don't think children are even allowed to get married/make their vows/whatever, so if an underage child is getting married to an older dude, I don't think paedophilia is the only issue. However if the couple are both adults, I don't see what the problem is. It also depends on what the gap do you consider paedophilia within two adults.

Apart from religion, I cant think of any reasons why Gay Marriage shouldnt be allowed.

adam carson.:

I don't get it.
If marriage is a religious thing, then why's the government getting involved?
What happened to seperation of church and state?
And why can't the different religions and versions of religions just resolve things based on their various beliefs?

If it's not religious, than what's up with having to have civil unions?
And can we please ignore the people with religious arguments then, since it's not relevant?

This was posted without reading any of the above, BTW.

I agree completly. What did happen to seperation of state and church? I'm catholic, yes I do believe in God PEOPLE, I'm also bisexual, and I have a question: If God made me this way, if he made everyone, why is it such a sin to be gay or lesbian? I''m seriously curious, why is it so bad, why am I so afraid to come out in my catholic grade school but not my catholic high all-girls school? I don't understand that part.

I think that homosexuality has become way more open in recent years and the older generations simply are not ready or accepting of it. The leaders of manyof our countries were raised as Christians and they were told what to think.

In Australia, and I guess in the UK and America too, have a look at the people running your country. Many of them are 40+. I think things will get better when our generation takes over Besides a lot of politics is based on religion. It is here in Australia....honestly its a pain in the arse.

-What consequences does legalising homosexual marriages have on SOCIETY?
It gives us freedom. The Government doesn't really want that.

And what are your views on homosexual couples adopting children? Does this provide complications from the child's point of view?
I think that there are plenty of children out there who need two loving parents. If they can love the kid...go for it. They will put up with a little bit of teasing fom ignorant people. But they will get through it.

Our Avenged Jules:

Yep, you did misread.
I never said anything about comparing homosexual relationships to incest or paedophilia.
I said that the general phrase, "LOVE IS LOVE" can be applied to many different situations - such as paedophilia, incest and beastiality.
In the old thread, people kept saying that "love is love" and that's why homosexuals should be allowed marriage.
But if that's the case, that means brothers and sisters should be able to get married, and people should be allowed to marry animals, and old men should be able to marry eight-year-old girls.

My mistake, then.

I do, however, hear that statement a lot. "If we're going to allow gays to marry, then why not allow..." whatever perversion the person chooses to use. It's dehumanizing, in a way, to have something as simple as a homosexual couple wanting to marry comapred to something as obviously wrong and immoral as beastiality. If that made any sense.

Ahem, just to play Devil's advocate for a moment; if you're suggesting that brothers/sister couples cannot get married becasue their children would be diseased, then surely you shouldn't allow couples who carry dominant and recessive genetic defects genes the right to marry, right? I mean, their children could be diseased jsut as much, if not MORE, than an incestuous couple.


However, on topic: Jules is just asking you expand, I think. Love is love could be a viable argument if you actually supported it with facts and laws and statistics and you know, information. The problem with our last Homosexuality thread was that these were most posts:

random user who didn't read thread:

HEY, LOVE IS LOVE.

We're just asking for more in-depth discussion here; it is a discussion board...

LOVE IS LOVE can also be applied to incestual relationships, as well as animal/human relationships and paedophiliac relationships.
Get my gist?
1. Marriage should be between two consenting adults. Animals cannot consent, and children are not adults.
2. As for incest, polygamy, or other things that aren't overruled by point 1 - to be really honest, if you can have sex with your sibling without puking, well, more power to you. Mutations wouldn't be really common without many generations of incest, and the mutations would not neccesarily be life-threatening. However, no one is born attracted only to their sister. Homosexual people are born homosexual, just like I was born with blue eyes and my friend was born a lefty. Homosexuality is part of the human condition. Denying people rights based on something they were born with and cannot control/change *coughskincolorcough* is wrong. And totally illegal.
-Why do you believe homosexual marriages AREN'T ALREADY LEGALISED in most countries?
Homosexuals are in the minority, and people love to discriminate against minorities. Also, people love to label things, because they figure if they can understand who everyone else is, they'll have a shot at understanding themselves. If a person's sexuality is in question, it makes them difficult to label, which people hate.
-What consequences does legalising homosexual marriages have on SOCIETY?
Basically none that I can think of, except making some people very happy. True, there will be a whole bunch of people with low self-esteems who will feel threatened (not being able to label people, etc), but they really should just get over that.
-And what are your views on homosexual couples adopting children? Does this provide complications from the child's point of view?
Ideally, every child could be raised in a loving home by a mother and father. But we don't live in an ideal world. If a government isn't going to deny children to all people who won't be ideal parents - divorced people, widows/widowers or other single parents, ignorant people, people who don't have the means to raise their child in the best enviroment, people who use too much garlic, brittney spears and kevin federline, people who try to control every aspect of their child's lives, people who try to live their dreams through their children, etc, then it has no right to deny gay people children. I know plenty of people who would be a lot better off with two loving moms or two loving dads than the parents they got stuck with.

On Civil Unions: At the moment, in the United States, civil unions are not the same thing as legal marriages. Obviously, if a church wants to deny a religious ceremony to a gay couple, that's their business to deal with. But the religious ceremony is just that - a ceremony. It has nothing to do with being married in the eyes of the government. I personally hate the idea of civil unions - when was the last time "seperate but equal" actually worked (oh yes, that's right, never)? Homosexuals deserve the right to legal marriages just as much as heterosexuals do.

(wow, that's sort of long... )

orlamos:

However, no one is born attracted only to their sister. Homosexual people are born homosexual, just like I was born with blue eyes and my friend was born a lefty. Homosexuality is part of the human condition. Denying people rights based on something they were born with and cannot control/change *coughskincolorcough* is wrong. And totally illegal.

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with that particular part.
I don't think someone is necessarily born homosexual.
It's something you come to learn about yourself - a preference.
You're not born with a preference for chocolate over vanilla, it's something you experience.
I think, what you're trying to get at, is that homosexuals don't necessarily have control over their attraction to the same gender.
A homosexual person, in my opinion, might believe they've always been gay at heart, but I believe as a person, you might never discover that about yourself - you might choose to ignore it, or you might openly embrace it.