Abortions.

The High Ground.:

You can't change the fact that there are unwanted children out there by killing them.
I think most people would be happy to know that while their conception wasn't planned, their mother still loved them enough to give them a chance to continue living outside the womb.

Just because they are brought into this world naturally by their mother, it doesn't mean that they are going to be loved and cherished. I know people who grew up with abusive parent(s), and it isn't pretty. Would they feel loved? No. And they don't feel loved. They feel resentment, and a lot of them are suicidal. One friend I have in particular used to be suicidal. Her mother used to throw things at her during arguments, and hit her when she was little. Her mother was also an alcholic, and never had a constant partner; she was always coming home with different men.
That is only one example of a parent-child relationship gone wrong.

Don't suggest for one second that just because their parents brought them into the world that they are loved by them. Because it's not true.

Sometimes abortion is necessary, for that purpose. If the parent(s) know that the child that has been concieved won't be loved, or if they know that they don't have the resources to house/clothe/feed etc. a child at that point in time, then I don't see why the mother can't have an abortion.

With abortion, the mother's life comes first, and that's the way it should be.

Whenever anyone does anything major, like having an abortion, they should always put their best interests at heart.

okay... let's just throw out all the arguments of the way it got here (rape, incest, etc.), the scientigic arguments of the "benefit" ov various parties (overpopulation, lack of loving families to adopt, psychological trauma to either the baby or the mother, etc.), the "benefits" that could possibly happen (stem cell research and other various things of that nature) and keep in mind that those are only the PRO CHOICE arguments that i've listed...

now consider the PRO LIFE side of the argument... you're ENDING LIFE... you're KILLING another HUMAN... to every argument that you can bring up to me... there is one thing that is indisputable...

YOU'RE STILL SLAUGHTERING A BABY....

end of story.

genresR4losers:

okay... let's just throw out all the arguments of the way it got here (rape, incest, etc.), the scientigic arguments of the "benefit" ov various parties (overpopulation, lack of loving families to adopt, psychological trauma to either the baby or the mother, etc.), the "benefits" that could possibly happen (stem cell research and other various things of that nature) and keep in mind that those are only the PRO CHOICE arguments that i've listed...

now consider the PRO LIFE side of the argument... you're ENDING LIFE... you're KILLING another HUMAN... to every argument that you can bring up to me... there is one thing that is indisputable...

YOU'RE STILL SLAUGHTERING A BABY....

end of story.

^^As it has been stated countless times before though, a fetus that is terminated during an abortion is not a baby. It can't feel, it can't comprehend. It doesn't feel any pain when it is aborted.

And it is not slaughter. For the most part, it is, and should be, done professionally by a doctor. Either that, or the woman is administered an abortion pill. There is nothing malicious about it, and it is not slaughter.

Yes, when someone has an abortion they are ending a potential life. But it is the woman's choice, and generally it is an informed decision.

I know it seems selfish to put your life ahead of a potential life, but that's the way it is, and that's the way majority of society see it. The fact of the matter is, people in general place more importance on a life that is already living, than on a life that has the potential to live

And I am offended that you write "end of story" at the end of your post.
No, I'm sorry, but it is not "end of story".

There are two sides to this, and they are, and shall be, discussed. Stop placing more importance on your own ideas than everybody else's. I accept that there are people, like yourself, who are pro-life. And I don't mind that.

did you know that at the latest point that it is currently legal to get an abortion, it is possible for the BABY to live outside of the womb... yeah... that's a slight detail that most people forget...

and if you don't feel that ripping a human being limb by limb and then cutting it's head off and sticking it in a jar so that you can have something "pretty" to put on your bookshelf isn't slaughter... i feel sorry for you...

and yes... it is the potential for life.... and it is life... it's just smaller than you would usually find it, but it's life nonetheless... and it's not an informed decision because the baby didn't give any consent to being murdered...

yeah... i get what you're saying about putting an existing life over a potential life... but seriously, if you don't stop killing the future generation, there will be no one left to take care of the current one when they're old and decrepit

and getting back to the fetus thing... i can call it a baby if i want to... but as i said a few slides ago, you could call me a turtle, and that doesn't make me a turtle... and guess what??? i'm still not a turtle...

i understand that there are 2 sides to every argument... it's just that everyone that i encounter on YOUR side of the argument seems to think that i have no right to be arguing mine... so i'm just returning the favor... i don't mind people being pro-choice... honestly... everyone's got a right to their own opinions... it's when you think that your opinions give you the right to kill another human being... that just disgusts me...

Not everyone here who believes in abortion believes in the date at which the cutoff is. I think you fail to remember that,
Im not one of them, but im sure almost everyone else who supports it feels that way.

BTW, that's not how most abortions work, because your not trying to get a lump of **** that big out. Most women get abortions around trimesters 2-6, when there arn't really any limbs to begin with (rather, there is, but they are sea money style)

The notion that a fetus is a "smaller" form of life is just silly, especially a young one. I feel like pro lifers are just BEGGING to destroy our planet and looking for things to complain about in the meantie, because that's what all these useless pregancys are: destruction of the earth. We are an overpopulated species. Better STOP a possible life instead of letting a mass group of them ruin it for the rest of us.
And I don't concider that heartless at all. I care about the people of this earth very much. They don't deserve to suffer in the future because a bunch of confused people thought it would be cool to expand the species by a forth therefore dooming us sooner then later.
I concider that mercy for the people who REALLY matter. Those that can feel, and have felt. Those with family and friends. Those who have experienced what REAL life is, and have not sat in the body of another (often) without having a thought in their head.

So your saying REALLY, that there arn't enough people here already?
Ok
Wait a minute
Even WITH abortion, the human race has leaped dramaticallty. I took THIS from the US cencus website
Population Growth

From the dawn of mankind to the turn of the nineteenth century world population grew to a total of one billion people. During the 1800s, human numbers increased at increasingly higher rates, reaching a total of about 1.7 billion people by 1900. World population has grown even more rapidly during the present century, with the greatest gains occurring in the post-World War II period, and stands at over three times its size in 1900 -- some 5.9 billion people -- today.

Population growth has continued throughout the past three decades in spite of the decline in fertility rates that began in many developing countries in the late 1970s and, in some countries, in spite of the toll taken by the HIV/AIDS pandemic. While the rate of increase is slowing, in absolute terms world population growth continues to be substantial. Global population increase is currently equivalent to adding a new Israel, Egypt, Jordan, West Bank, and Gaza to the existing world total each year.

According to Census Bureau projections, world population will increase to a level of nearly 8 billion persons by the end of the next quarter century, and will reach 9.3 billion persons -- a number more than half again as large as today's total -- by 2050.

..There will be more then enough people to compensate.

genresR4losers:

and if you don't feel that ripping a human being limb by limb and then cutting it's head off and sticking it in a jar so that you can have something "pretty" to put on your bookshelf isn't slaughter... i feel sorry for you...

Don't feel sorry for me. Because I still believe wholeheartedly that abortion isn't slaughter.

And what's all this about "ripping a human being limb by limb" etc? What - you mean people who dontate their fetus' for scientific research? Please explain what you're talking about.

genresR4losers:

and yes... it is the potential for life.... and it is life... it's just smaller than you would usually find it, but it's life nonetheless... and it's not an informed decision because the baby didn't give any consent to being murdered...

Of course the fetus cannot give consent! It doesn't have the capacity to. The reason why the choice for an abortion is usually an informed decision is because the woman would decide what is best for her and the unborn fetus. Yes, sometimes it is best if a fetus isn't brought into this world as a baby.

Can you imagine that if every single fetus was brought to full term? Overpopulation much?

genresR4losers:

yeah... i get what you're saying about putting an existing life over a potential life... but seriously, if you don't stop killing the future generation, there will be no one left to take care of the current one when they're old and decrepit

If you compare statistics between fetus' that are aborted and fetus' that are brought to full term, then you will clearly see that abortion is not "destroying the future generation".

genresR4losers:

and getting back to the fetus thing... i can call it a baby if i want to... but as i said a few slides ago, you could call me a turtle, and that doesn't make me a turtle... and guess what??? i'm still not a turtle...

Exactly - if you call a fetus a baby, guess what? It still doesn't mean it's a baby, going by your analogy.

genresR4losers:

i understand that there are 2 sides to every argument... it's just that everyone that i encounter on YOUR side of the argument seems to think that i have no right to be arguing mine... so i'm just returning the favor... i don't mind people being pro-choice... honestly... everyone's got a right to their own opinions... it's when you think that your opinions give you the right to kill another human being... that just disgusts me...

You have every right to be arguing yours. But do not say that you're argument is "end of story" because it's not. Nothing is "end of story" in this discussion, because two sides are still being discussed.

And about my opinions disgusting you - that's all fine and wonderful. I don't care what my opinions make you feel, because they're my opinions.

^well, it depends on the method that the mother chooses to kill her child, but in a good bit of cases, the babies are actually ripped apart limb by limb. i've seen pictures. actually, if you were to attend the National Pro-Life March, they put these picutes on giant billboards for all of Washington DC to view... i went in january... i can still see those pictures as though it were yesterday, it's just something that you don't forget.

yes, there is a possibility that there would be overpopulation, but did you ever think to consider the possibilty of the potential for the babies that are being killed? they could possibly find the cure for cancer, finally solve the problem of global warming... etc, etc, etc... maybe, just maybe, they might find a solution to overpopulation... to you that might be a longhsot... but to me, considering a baby as anything less than human is a longshot...

okay... if you say that by killing 1:4 of the future generation isn't destroying it, that's you... usually, when people are killed in those kinds of porportions, it's called a massacre, or a plague or something of that nature... so, considering that such a large percentage of the population is being killed, i don't see how that's not harming the future generation.

exactly... so... you call it a fetus... i'll call it a baby... but i'm still not a turtle...

well... i wasn't suggesting by any means that it's the end of the argument... i'm not that stupid... i'm just saying that it's the end of story for me... its WRONG. that's all there is to it... but i think that no matter what argument you can throw at the issue... it still comes back to the fact that you're killing a baby... end of story. it may not be the end of story for you... it may not be the end of story for a lot of people... but for that baby it certainly was... and i don't think that you can argue with that... though i'm sure you're going to try...

^It's all very nice and weel saying that an aborted fetus could have done so and so. But the thing is, with advancements like that, it's merely a race, some other docter, scientist ect would most likely find the answer anyway.
And, although I'm pro choice, I do think that it should only be up to 17 weeks.
What you said about the limbs was correct...and although the fetus most likely feels no pain, the procedure is quitehorrable in my opinion.

Howver, with those marches, they are quite biased anyway, they're not going to portray the other point of view.

^the marches are quite biased... but it's the national PRO LIFE march... not the national ARGUMENT OVER THE PRO LIFE MOVEMENT march... so it's meant to be biased... it's meant to be one-sided...

i'm glad that someone agrees with me on the fact that the timeline for an abortion is entirely too long... at the moment, i would be happy with banning everything but the morning after pill, but i know that that's not going to happen. but i think that if anything's going to be done to solve this problem it must be done in small steps... personally, i think that the best place to start would be banning all abortions past the first trimester... but then again, that's just me...

First of all, if those pictures bother you so much, you shouldn't be looking at them. I love prolifers facination with looking at and naming dead babies. Some have whole websites dedicated to it. fetish much?

Second, it's called selective propoganda, much like PETA does when they show factory farms that don't meet humane society standards and apply it to every farm out there. What you saw were images of fetuses too large to take out without dissembling them. This only really happens if a woman gets a late abortion, where most of them get it within the first 2 months of them being pregnant.
There are actually several types of abortions, all varied by size of the fetus and the clinic you go to. None of them are as dramatic as that last minute deal. They vary between chemical and physical. How much do you really even know about abortion besides what your march buddies tell you, because you sound like you don't know what your talking about.

No, there is no possibility of overpopulation: it's a fact, and banning abortion will only quicken the pace and make it more brutal. Think China: those people slaughter LIVE BABIES to keep their population down, given most families don't have the recources to do otherwise. I personally couldn't care less if one out of a million aborted babies could have cured cancer. We havebillions of other people to make up for that. Fact is, most of them would have been like the rest of us: space fillers, and we don't need that.

I don't concider abortion murder, so I really can't take you seriously on this next part. Abortion is stopping a life from forming, not killing someone. Im not gutting your two year old brother that is receptive to pain and axctually KNOWS he is alive.

I personally care more about the masses. Should a man in a coma be weighing down a sinking rowboat full of people, I would hurl him out. Should I have to shoot a guy in the head to stop the suffering of millions, I would do it. Should I have to eliminate creatures that arn't even concious of their existance so I can secure the human race for a few more years, I would. It's worth it.

i'm sorry, but 8 weeks is not a late abortion... nor is 11... sure... there were pictures from later terms like 21 weeks, which was absolutely horrifying... and it's kind of hard not to look at a gigantic bilboard when you have to walk around it to get where you're going....

and i don't approve of what china's doing... just as i don't approve of what the US is doing... granted, what's happening in china is more gruesome and devasting but it's only slightly farther down the timeline than what's happening in the US...

oh... and you're next point brings me back to my turtle argument... you can call me a turtle... i'm still not a turtle... so i'll choose to call it murder... you choose to call it whatever you want... but i'm still not a turtle... but it's fact that at some points that are still legal to kill the child, it is receptive to pain... so, no it's not gutting a 2 year old, but not too much further before it in the timeline...

you bring up the benefit of the masses, so in order to ensure the survial of the human species... shouldn't you want to ensure that ONE in FOUR be allowed to survive??? i know that's what i'm trying to do... because that's what i see as worth it...

8 weeks is past two months, which is pretty late given when the average abortion is done.

When is a young fetus able to feel pain.

Wait....at what stage does a fetus even know it is alive?

That's pretty lame. (BTW, don't answer those questions. That's hypothetical sarcasm)

No. To ensure the survival of human beings, it makes more sense that we allow one to never live in the first place. I hope abortion rates increase though, or conception rates, but that will probably INCREASE.
Once again, you have failed to see the larger picture in all of this. I don't think you really care about the people of the future very much or you would see where I am coming from. When I talk about population, im giving straight up facts, much to my own dismay.

genresR4losers:

okay... if you say that by killing 1:4 of the future generation isn't destroying it, that's you... usually, when people are killed in those kinds of porportions, it's called a massacre, or a plague or something of that nature... so, considering that such a large percentage of the population is being killed, i don't see how that's not harming the future generation.

You have to remember that statistics for abortion rates are going to be different throughout pretty much all countries. You're probably going by statistics from your own country, wherever that is.

And can you back it up please?

genresR4losers:

well... i wasn't suggesting by any means that it's the end of the argument... i'm not that stupid... i'm just saying that it's the end of story for me... its WRONG. that's all there is to it... but i think that no matter what argument you can throw at the issue... it still comes back to the fact that you're killing a baby... end of story. it may not be the end of story for you... it may not be the end of story for a lot of people... but for that baby it certainly was... and i don't think that you can argue with that... though i'm sure you're going to try...

Oh, cry me a river. Yes, of course a fetus died. But there was obviously a reasoning behind it. You're making it sound as if any woman can just walk into a doctor's surgery and demand an abortion. That's not how it works. Abortions are legalfor the woman's benefit. Yeah, a clump of cells had to be eradicated. But it was done for a reason, and you have to think of it from the woman's point of view.

the percentage of pregnanies that come from rape or incenst together are less than 2%. so most of these are people willingly getting pregnant. so you can't blame it all on rape, because most of these people know what they're doing, and what could happen. then are essientally taking the easy way out

PlushToy:

Just because they are brought into this world naturally by their mother, it doesn't mean that they are going to be loved and cherished. I know people who grew up with abusive parent(s), and it isn't pretty.

just to jump into the argument and get out, the 'abortions help prevent child abuse' has been tested, studied, and closely watched for years. and in no way, shape or form, do they prevent child abuse.

XD There really isn't any way to test that unless you can make simulated children put into the place where the fetuses were supposed to be..I think you might be a little off there.

Girl next door:

PlushToy:

Just because they are brought into this world naturally by their mother, it doesn't mean that they are going to be loved and cherished. I know people who grew up with abusive parent(s), and it isn't pretty.

just to jump into the argument and get out, the 'abortions help prevent child abuse' has been tested, studied, and closely watched for years. and in no way, shape or form, do they prevent child abuse.

In no way was I saying that it prevented child abuse. The reason I stated ^^ that was because there were some people who assumed a woman who follows through with her pregnancy after being discouraged to have an abortion will then automatically become maternal and care for her child, which is not always the case. I know it doesn't prevent child abuse

I'm fully for it. If the mother doesn't want the baby or she can't handle it, then she should have the option to get rid of the baby without having to go through labour and then either get stuck with something she doesn't want or have to put a baby into the lonely life of care homes.

Rainbow Gypsy:

I'm fully for it. If the mother doesn't want the baby or she can't handle it, then she should have the option to get rid of the baby without having to go through labour and then either get stuck with something she doesn't want or have to put a baby into the lonely life of care homes.

if my parents don't like me, then they should have the option to kill me.?

and i hate these excuses
'i don't want to go through child labor'
'it's my body'
'it's so embarassing'

i don't want to go through child labor? that is pretty selfish if you ask me.

it's my body?
no it isn't your body, it is the baby.
it may be IN your body, but it is not YOU it is affecting, it's the baby living inside you that has a body of its very own.

it's embarassing?
again, that seems very selfish.

i just don't think humans should have the right to decide who lives and who dies before they even get a chance.

it doesn't matter what stage of life they are in,
to me, it's all the same