Abortions.

PlushToy:

AngryMailPerson:

trust me i'm DEFINETLY open minded. it's just you people, arguging weather abortion should be legal or not, i just find it amusing when people argue about something that was man made, because if it was never PUBLICIZED then we wouldn't be talking about it.

You say you're open minded, but yet you don't take into account that abortion is actually socially acceptable by most people. If you ask any woman that has had an abortion, and I challenge you to do this, then she will most likely tell you it was a hard and painful decision to make. Why would she choose to have it then?, you may ask. You have to take into account that not every single woman is going to be ready and able to have a child at any stage in her life. And that also means physically able to not only carry the child to full term, but also physically care for the child. Amongst other things.

Secondly, yes, abortion is "man made", but it is a medical / surgical procedure. All medical / surgical procedures are "man made" in a way.

The point I want to stress is that it is a medical / surgical procedure, and that is not a bad thing. In fact, if we did not have abortion as it is performed today, then people would still be performing "backyard / backstreet abortions", whereby the woman, or someone else assisting her, terminates the pregnancy in horrific ways that I personally don't want to spell out. And, I know, unfortunately these DIY abortions are still carried out in some countries where abortion is illegal.

This brings me to another point.

If abortion procedures were illegal, then that would not wholly stop abortion. As I stated before, people would perform them themselves, or with the assistance of untrained others, which can be very dangerous for the woman's health.

As much as you probably don't want to admit it, abortion has been around for time immemorial. It's just that, these days, there are much better and safer ways of performing the medical procedure.

And now that there is the abortion pill, which has actually been around for a number of years now, I think that this is a sign that we are actually creating better methods to perform abortion, which can only be a good thing in terms of doing it humanely.

AngryMailPerson:

it all boils down to the situation. when you have sex you take the responsibilty of knowing you might get pregnant. it's the way it goes. i'm not telling you not to do it, i'm telling you to take responsibility for your actions and stop taking the easy way out

I highly doubt that most women who have had an abortion can say it was "taking the easy way out". In fact, I am quite offended by you saying that. Abortion is hard for a woman to go through, but in some circumstances it has to be done for the sake of the woman.

I know you don't like to be told this, but you do, in fact, need to open your mind on this issue. I know I don't know you, but you are actually the one who is judging others negatively. You are stereotyping women who have abortions, saying that they are "taking the easy way out".

Ahem...hello. Sorry to butt into your conversation, but I have something to say.

Compare the two. Aborting an embryo or giving up a child to adoption or even raising a child. Compare them. Abortion is SOOOOO much easier then both of those other choices, so yes, abortion would be the easy way out.

Your right, almost all medical procedures are not natural, but abortion is the only one that kills a semi-human life. Kills a beating heart, and a developing brain. When you get surgery your doing nothing but helping yourself. Abortion may "help" you, but it has to kill an embryo to do so.

i know i haven't been on this thread in a while, but i still think that abortion is murder... you're killing a living, bleeding, human being with a beating heart... how is that not murder... just cause it's smaller than you would normally find someone in society, and needs more medical attention than most people, it doesn't mean that anyone has the right to kill it. no one goes around killing dwarves, so why do people think that by that same logic they can kill babies?

seriously, there are people in almost every city across the US that are surving on life support, yet we keep them alive. no one ever complains about it. these people are taking up much more space and effort than a baby inside the womb... so why are people complaining?

it completely disgusts me that there are so many people that get themselves in an uproar if a pregnant dog gets hit on the side of the road, but really could care less about the millions of human lives that have already been literally thrown away.

sorry... but that's just my opinion...

^You're making it sound like everyone who gets abortions don't use protection, that's just not true.

In my opinion, it's none of the buissness of people who can't have children who gets abortions.
It's hardly a little person, 90% of abortions take place before the embryo is 14 weeks. That's not something I would call a 'little person'

Simple and Clean:

^You're making it sound like everyone who gets abortions don't use protection, that's just not true.

In my opinion, it's none of the business of people who can't have children who gets abortions.
It's hardly a little person, 90% of abortions take place before the embryo is 14 weeks. That's not something I would call a 'little person'

How is that not there business? They pray everyday of their lives that they could have a baby, and teenagers who accidentally got pregnant are throwing away embryos by the thousands each day. If I could not have kids then I would be pretty offended by that. I think it sure as hell is there business if they want it to be.

^But how is that person keeping the baby going to help the couple conceive?
It isn't.

Simple and Clean:

^But how is that person keeping the baby going to help the couple conceive?
It isn't.

That's not the point. It wont help them conceive, but to see embryos being thrown away mercilessly while you yourself not being able to create one is probably one of the worst things on earth. Now I say this because my brother's fiance cannot conceive, and I have talked to her about it, and it is absolutely devastating to see life being taken for granted, and being thrown away thoughtlessly.

]i know i haven't been on this thread in a while, but i still think that abortion is murder... you're killing a living, bleeding, human being with a beating heart... how is that not murder...
[color=pibk] Because it is not ALWAYS a living, breathing thing with a heartbeat. It doesn't THINK. It has no experience in the world. It has no rights. It can't live outside a monther's woumb. That's why it's not murder. Howabout bringing up something more original[/color]


just cause it's smaller than you would normally find someone in society, and needs more medical attention than most people, it doesn't mean that anyone has the right to kill it. no one goes around killing dwarves, so why do people think that by that same logic they can kill babies?
No, it has nothing to do with being smaller. This has to do with "doesn it have a concious?" Plants have more of a right to life then these things. At least plants have a desire to live, and a concious of their life. Does that mean we should stop eating them?

seriously, there are people in almost every city across the US that are surving on life support, yet we keep them alive. no one ever complains about it. these people are taking up much more space and effort than a baby inside the womb... so why are people complaining?
Those people have a life to begin with. There is a dramatic difference between a human being , who has a concious, and a life to speak of, with people that love and care for it, and a young fetus that doesn't even think. Besides physical features, they are nothing better then sperm (up to a point anyway)


Oh, and all of those families that cannot have kids..it's not that there arn't enough kids. Adoption centers are overpopulated. It's the legal system.

^^Plants don't have a conscious either. They don't think. It just happens. Its nature. An embryo beats a plant out by miles. Hundreds of miles. A plant is nothing compared to a human life. NOTHING!

Oh wait..what world are you living in?

http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/plantsas.htm

This is one example. Experiments on plants have all pushed the idea of plant conciousness and proven they have a mental state. They just canno't feel physical pain. There is a difference. Plants are knows to be sensitive and emotional creatures. Embryos are not.

DIE! DIE! DIE!:

Oh wait..what world are you living in?

http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/plantsas.htm

This is one example. Experiments on plants have all pushed the idea of plant conciousness and proven they have a mental state. They just canno't feel physical pain. There is a difference. Plants are knows to be sensitive and emotional creatures. Embryos are not.

Are you freaking kidding me!?! Its a God-forsaken plant! An embryo is a breed of person. Plants are in NO comparison to a human life. yea we need plants to live, but a plant is in NO WAY more important then a person! Not in ANY way!

But a plant has a conciousness. An embryo does not. A plant fears for it's life.
An embryo has no idea it's alive, and it's definately not a person..not yet anyway.

DIE! DIE! DIE!:

But a plant has a conciousness. An embryo does not. A plant fears for it's life.
An embryo has no idea it's alive, and it's definately not a person..not yet anyway.

If a plant has such a consciousness then get it to do something! ANYTHING! Anything but sit there and eat and grow. It cant. All it can do is what nature tells it to do. An embryo. The first stage of human life. Has a beating heart, a developing brain, and is on the its way to a full functioning life. Now compare the two. Its a goddamn plant. It means nothing other then to help us live. Nothing.

It may not be able to move, but it has a conciousness. Just because it sit's their doesn't mean it's no better then any living thing.

Besides..er..isn't that what an embryo does?

Besides, then what are we humans good for. We don't really help anything. A little plant does more for the world then us, so don't be dissing on their usefulness. Without plants, we wouldn't be able to eat or breathe.

An embryo is the first stage of life, but it's not alive. It's not a little baby. There is a massive difference between the two.

DIE! DIE! DIE!:

It may not be able to move, but it has a conciousness. Just because it sit's their doesn't mean it's no better then any living thing.

Besides..er..isn't that what an embryo does?

Besides, then what are we humans good for. We don't really help anything. A little plant does more for the world then us, so don't be dissing on their usefulness. Without plants, we wouldn't be able to eat or breathe.

An embryo is the first stage of life, but it's not alive. It's not a little baby. There is a massive difference between the two.

I already said that we needed plants. I know that. But we are here to be dominant, which is why an embryo is more then a plant. Because it is human, and humans are dominant over plants.

Does it have a concious?" Plants have more of a right to life then these things. At least plants have a desire to live, and a concious of their life. Does that mean we should stop eating them?

^Well that was the original point. Let's not being your theology into this. Basically, even though life means more to a plant then an embryo, it's lessethtical to kill the plant.

Ok..whatever.

DIE! DIE! DIE!:

Does it have a concious?" Plants have more of a right to life then these things. At least plants have a desire to live, and a concious of their life. Does that mean we should stop eating them?

^Well that was the original point. Let's not being your theology into this. Basically, even though life means more to a plant then an embryo, it's lessethtical to kill the plant.

Ok..whatever.

Plants dont care about anything. Anything. And neither does an embryo. Scientifically they are about the same, except for one thing. Humanity! And thats means a lot.

Wow..it's like you totally ignored everything I have been saying about plants and conciousness....

DIE! DIE! DIE!:

Wow..it's like you totally ignored everything I have been saying about plants and conciousness....

No...really I havent. Ive thought about it, but it still amazes me how a plant can even be considered close to a human.

NotOkay22:

Ahem...hello. Sorry to butt into your conversation, but I have something to say.

Compare the two. Aborting an embryo or giving up a child to adoption or even raising a child. Compare them. Abortion is SOOOOO much easier then both of those other choices, so yes, abortion would be the easy way out.

It may seem like abortion is the "easy" way out at first, but psychologically it's not. When I said it's not the easy way out, I meant that a lot of thought has to go into a decision like that.

And you have completely disregarded most of what I had said.
Not every woman that becomes pregnant is willing or able to carry a child to full term.

Saying that all women who don't want to keep their child should stick it out the full 9 months is ridiculous. Not all women can, and not all want to. And not all want to have their child turn around 20 years later to come and find them. Adoption is not an ideal in many cases.

NotOkay22:

Your right, almost all medical procedures are not natural, but abortion is the only one that kills a semi-human life. Kills a beating heart, and a developing brain. When you get surgery your doing nothing but helping yourself. Abortion may "help" you, but it has to kill an embryo to do so.

And there is nothing wrong with "helping yourself". I don't think there is, anyway.

You said it yourself: "semi-human". Last time I checked, actual humans' lives are of more value than than "semi" ones.