Abortions.

^agreed. but some women can't even tell thier husbands that they're pregenant, but it depends on the scenirio

savedbymcr_2004:

^agreed. but some women can't even tell thier husbands that they're pregenant, but it depends on the scenirio

true! I know that some people believe that because it's a woman's body it ONLY a woman's decision...in cases of a rape or if the father doesn't want the baby anyway or the father just doesn't care, i think that's definetly true. But in marriage, the mother should definetly step up and not take all the of the responsibility since it isn't only their child. Couples need to really communicate about these things-not just stick with the 'Oh it's your decision'!

^good piont, but still it you never know how the other is gonna ract. people always surprise you

^your definetly right, but they should atleast make an effort so that they don't spend the rest of their life asking what if's

Just a thought that I'm not sure if anybody's brought up as yet...
I know we've discussed the fact that there are medical reasons for getting an abortion, and that there are cases where it could be fatal to the mother if a baby is carried longer than a few weeks, so I guess yeah, we have already discussed it.
But yeah, I'd just like to ask the 'pro-lifers' out there whether aborting an ectopic pregnancy is still 'murder'?

A close friend of mine was overjoyed to find out she was pregnant with her second baby, but the first scan showed it was developing in her fallopian tube rather than implanting in the uterus, and if left to grow could render her infertile, cause fatal haemorrhaging, and no matter what, the baby would die - there was no chance of it surviving.
She was heartbroken, but knew that she had to get rid of it and try again later for another one.

Is she still a murderer? Should she have just gone through with the pregnancy on the tiny, tiny chance that the baby might make it to full-term and that she wouldn't be killed if it ruptured? Shouldn't this child have had 'a chance to live' just as much as any other embryo?

It's kind of like 'I listen to the rules the Bible lays out for me.' There are so many, and so many that are contradictory and/or make no sense whatsoever, so in actuality you pick and choose what to believe in and what to follow.
Therefore, by applying the same theory to abortion, those who say 'abortion is murder' would also agree that the products of rape, incest, ectopic pregnancies, babies who have drug addicts for mothers (and therefore chances are the baby will be disabled/deformed if it lives to full term), etc, all have a 'right to life', and that the women who get these abortions are murderers, no matter what the circumstance.
But I see a lot of people posting on this thread who say, 'Abortion is murder, but if the woman was raped it's okay,' etc. That makes you a hypocrite. All or nothing, I say - it's either wrong or it's right to allow women who feel they need to terminate a pregnancy the right to do so. Make up your minds.

When anybody eventually has kids, and has a daughter, how would you feel if your daughter was pregnant but couldn't keep the baby and abortion was illegal? (Let's say of her physical condition.) Would you want her to go into an alley and have an abortion with a wire hanger? Is it fair that it wasn't something she could control no matter how responsible she was?

^ I totally agree. I chose not to terminate my pregnancy because it was planned and a very much-wanted baby (although, with the benefit of hindsight and circumstances that have arisen in the last few weeks, we probably should have waited a while and saved some more money, but hey, what can you do? We'll survive), and I'm expecting a little girl.
No parent wants to think that their beautiful baby is going to grow up and maybe one day require (or want, either way I don't care - if they think it's necessary, then it is) an abortion, but I know that if my daughter ever came to me and told me she was pregnant, and that for whatever reason she didn't want to keep it or go through with the pregnancy, then I would want her to have the best medical care possible, just as I would if she had tonsillitis or cancer.
I would be devastated if her only option was to either go through with the pregnancy (and as you and others have stated, there are many cases where pregnancy puts the mother's life at risk), or go to someone's house for a backyard abortion with a coat hanger or knitting kneedle - putting her life at even more risk.

I believe abortion already has enough regulation and restriction on it (ie there's a cut-off period after which you have to keep the baby, unless there's a medical reason in which case they usually perform a C-section to deliver the foetus, for instance stillbirths, deformities etc), so it should be kept legal and accessible for women who need it.

^exactly. the only thing is that sometimes if you get an abortion like when your a teenager or something you might become sterille and are unable to ever concieve agian, i know like two girls who that happened to.

^ They obviously had extenuating circumstances that rendered them sterile, for instance the abortion wasn't performed properly (which means they didn't go to a proper clinic), or it might have been an ectopic pregnancy, where the fetus develops outside the womb.
Either that, or these girls were far, far, far too young to be having sex in the first place and their bodies couldn't cope with being pregnant.

^ yeah, it's funny in a sad way how hard the church is saying it's murder no matter what the scenerio

im for abortions. its the mothers choice. especially if your young. of course there is adoption. but me personally, i dont like those social workers. thats probably why i got one. any way im all for it.

^ this is kinda personal, sorry but do you ever feel remoarse or something?

* First of all, I believe life only *really* starts once the brain is functional. Otherwise, abortion is pretty much like having your period isn't it? The fetus's brain starts to develop around the third trimester. I believe mothers should have until then to abort it..like a cut off date

* Condoms don't always work, neither does birth control. You might say "Why don't you stop having sex", well, to some people, sex is like playing your favorite sport, drawing, something you really love etc.

Especially to those in serious relationships that want to express their love. Sex does help relationships grow and become more healthy. Obviously, couples don't want a child every time they do this.

* Look at [[[[[[[[some]]]]]] of the people who GET abotions. They are unfit parents: economically, financially, mentally, ect..and not all unfit parents put their kids up for adoption. In fact, most of them don't. If they did, society would be a much better place. SERIOUSLY

* Childbirth is life theatening for some woman. I personally wouldn't forfit a grown woman's life for something that has not even spawned a thought in it's head.

^yeah, i feel bad about my last comment, sorry. and the reasons above are really good, and i agree with all of them, i was just wondering about... never mind its stuppid, but good pionts

LoversHeartDisease:

* First of all, I believe life only *really* starts once the brain is functional. Otherwise, abortion is pretty much like having your period isn't it? The fetus's brain starts to develop around the third trimester. I believe mothers should have until then to abort it..like a cut off date

* Condoms don't always work, neither does birth control. You might say "Why don't you stop having sex", well, to some people, sex is like playing your favorite sport, drawing, something you really love etc.

Especially to those in serious relationships that want to express their love. Sex does help relationships grow and become more healthy. Obviously, couples don't want a child every time they do this.

* Look at [[[[[[[[some]]]]]] of the people who GET abotions. They are unfit parents: economically, financially, mentally, ect..and not all unfit parents put their kids up for adoption. In fact, most of them don't. If they did, society would be a much better place. SERIOUSLY

* Childbirth is life theatening for some woman. I personally wouldn't forfit a grown woman's life for something that has not even spawned a thought in it's head.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and YES.

Okay, maybe not third trimester cut-off, as the baby by then is pretty well-developed, can feel pain, can hear and recognise music and its mother's and father's voices, and can differentiate between light and dark (basically, it can see, it just has nothing to look at except the inside of the uterus). It's commonly accepted that a fetus can survive outside the womb at 24 weeks (with extensive neo-natal care, of course, if born that prematurely it would die without medical attention), so I feel much more comfortable with the 20-week cutoff or whatever it is (I could be wrong, don't quote me on that. Something tells me it's a few weeks earlier, actually).
I'm 33 weeks as of yesterday and I already know my baby's favourite bands - she kicks in time to certain tunes (and, much to my dismay, she seems to prefer her dad's favourite rap and dance music to my beloved punk, rock and screamo). She knows the difference between my hand resting on my belly, and her dad touching my belly (she keeps kicking when I'm touching my stomach, but as soon as my husband puts his hand across my stomach she settles and goes back to sleep), and she gets upset when I go out in bright light (she wriggles around and twists to get away from the light shining through the skin).
Surely those things prove that she has something going on in her head, even if it's basic, instinctual urges. Especially now that I can feel little elbows, knees, shoulders and a little bum sticking out at an odd angle everytime she's rolling into a new position, I feel like she's a little baby rather than a fetus.

I definitely do agree with your other points, though - especially the one about people who aren't fit to become parents... you're totally right, most of them don't do the right thing and put their children up for adoption, they just make a half-assed attempt to raise them and do a terrible, terrible job of it. Those kids would have been far, far better off being aborted before they knew what a hardship life can be.

Cigarettes And Suicide:

LoversHeartDisease:

* First of all, I believe life only *really* starts once the brain is functional. Otherwise, abortion is pretty much like having your period isn't it? The fetus's brain starts to develop around the third trimester. I believe mothers should have until then to abort it..like a cut off date

* Condoms don't always work, neither does birth control. You might say "Why don't you stop having sex", well, to some people, sex is like playing your favorite sport, drawing, something you really love etc.

Especially to those in serious relationships that want to express their love. Sex does help relationships grow and become more healthy. Obviously, couples don't want a child every time they do this.

* Look at [[[[[[[[some]]]]]] of the people who GET abotions. They are unfit parents: economically, financially, mentally, ect..and not all unfit parents put their kids up for adoption. In fact, most of them don't. If they did, society would be a much better place. SERIOUSLY

* Childbirth is life theatening for some woman. I personally wouldn't forfit a grown woman's life for something that has not even spawned a thought in it's head.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and YES.

Okay, maybe not third trimester cut-off, as the baby by then is pretty well-developed, can feel pain, can hear and recognise music and its mother's and father's voices, and can differentiate between light and dark (basically, it can see, it just has nothing to look at except the inside of the uterus). It's commonly accepted that a fetus can survive outside the womb at 24 weeks (with extensive neo-natal care, of course, if born that prematurely it would die without medical attention), so I feel much more comfortable with the 20-week cutoff or whatever it is (I could be wrong, don't quote me on that. Something tells me it's a few weeks earlier, actually).
I'm 33 weeks as of yesterday and I already know my baby's favourite bands - she kicks in time to certain tunes (and, much to my dismay, she seems to prefer her dad's favourite rap and dance music to my beloved punk, rock and screamo). She knows the difference between my hand resting on my belly, and her dad touching my belly (she keeps kicking when I'm touching my stomach, but as soon as my husband puts his hand across my stomach she settles and goes back to sleep), and she gets upset when I go out in bright light (she wriggles around and twists to get away from the light shining through the skin).
Surely those things prove that she has something going on in her head, even if it's basic, instinctual urges. Especially now that I can feel little elbows, knees, shoulders and a little bum sticking out at an odd angle everytime she's rolling into a new position, I feel like she's a little baby rather than a fetus.

I definitely do agree with your other points, though - especially the one about people who aren't fit to become parents... you're totally right, most of them don't do the right thing and put their children up for adoption, they just make a half-assed attempt to raise them and do a terrible, terrible job of it. Those kids would have been far, far better off being aborted before they knew what a hardship life can be.

i disagree you can always adopt, like people afre being selfish when they say to themselves just because they can't afford a baby then that baby should have its life taken away. its not fair to the baby. And heck we were all fetuses before we were born we were just lucky that no-body ever said they didn't want us

^well, still they probably won't get put up for adoption then it's like 1 in 5 chance being adopted as a baby, then 1 in 20 over the age of 3. so, abortion by a clinic is better then a backyard job with a coathanger

xsilverbulletx:

i disagree you can always adopt, like people afre being selfish when they say to themselves just because they can't afford a baby then that baby should have its life taken away. its not fair to the baby. And heck we were all fetuses before we were born we were just lucky that no-body ever said they didn't want us

Fetus= not a baby, human, or "life."
And, we would not know the difference if we were aborted. Honestly...
It is fair to the mother who is a functioning being.

^^^Yeah, we were all foetuses once - but we could just as easily have miscarried as carried to full term and born healthy. One in four pregnancies ends in miscarriage, so I can't understand why people go on about a two-week-old foetus being such a precious thing - chances are it won't survive anyway, no matter how careful you are.
And yes, I'm thankful that my parents wanted me, but they were emotionally, physically, financially and mentally prepared and capable of raising a child. You and I are just lucky that our parents aren't drug addicts, or living on the streets, or mentally ill to the point where they can't care for us.

The point I was trying to get across, was that people who should give up their children for adoption often don't bother - it's too much paperwork, too much effort, and if they're mentally incapacitated, for instance, they don't understand that they would be doing the child a favour by putting them in an orphanage or foster care.
Besides, I disagree with you - people can't 'always adopt', otherwise there'd be hardly any, if any, kids in orphanages or foster care - they'd all have been adopted by now, right?
I know that if my parents were incapable of looking after me, I'd rather never have been born than become a ward of the state, where my chances of being molested, abused, and denied basic human rights is extremely high. There are cases of foster parents who only accept children to get government stipends, and spend the money on themselves while abusing the children and denying them things such as clothes, food, education etc - no way would I want to be in a home like that. And no way would I want to be in an orphanage until the age of sixteen, then kicked out onto the street with no money, no job, no place to live, and end up turning to a life of crime, prostitution or drug abuse just to survive.
If my parents weren't able to afford to raise me, or otherwise in a position where they couldn't look after children (eg drug addicts or abusive), I would much, much rather they have aborted me and I wouldn't know any different. Surely never being alive in the first place is preferable to having a life where you wish every day that you'd never been born.

I think people who have kids when they're not in a position to do so are the selfish ones. The people who terminate their pregnancies rather than put those children through so much hardship are the ones doing the right thing.

im 50/50 i think that if you get raped or something like that and you dont want the baby to be anything like that person that you should get an abortion but on the other hand the baby is stilla person whether its born or not an it is kinda like murder. I read this thing on some website once that was from the unborn babys point of view and how the baby thought it was loved but then it started feeling pain and didnt know how the mother that it loved could be doing that to it..i know that sounds a little impossible but just think about it