Abortions.

Girl next door:

if someone has a REAL reasons for getting a abortion, not because 'caring for it will be hard'. if it affects her career, her body or shes mentally is unable to have a child i can except that. your friend is a example. she can get a abortion because a baby will affect her life in a bad way, but like I've said before woman who get abortion even though they are fully capable of having a child, i think that immoral.

But what if caring for it is too hard? If a woman knows caring for a child is too difficult a task for her, and she doesn't want to give the child up for adoption, why on earth would she carry the child to term, only to be driven to desperate measures? I live right by an 80 foot-high waterfall, and I've heard stories about young mothers in particular, who just can't handle motherhood, throwing their babies and often themselves over the falls, just to end it all. Much better to get rid of the embryo when it can't feel pain than do that.

Girl next door:

I'm sorry that i got defensive about a baby ruining a woman's life, but that stuck out to me and i saw i red. what you made it sound like was whether the woman wants a baby or not it'll ruin her life, which is completely untrue. caring for a baby is hard, but i can tell you with my head up high that its worth it.

Of course babies don't always ruin people's lives; that's not what I meant (in my defense, I did say "potentially" ). Despite being pro-choice, I really do love babies - between October and December of last year, four of my cousins gave birth. It was soooper exciting; I even got to hold one of my little cousins on the day he was born. ^___^

NotOkay22:

I understand not wanting to have your life ruined, but their are other options other then just destroying the embryo.

Exactly - which is why a woman should examine all options when faced with an unwanted pregnancy. Abortion included.

Also, I don't know if it's fair to say that all of the women in therapy at your clinic were facing the same difficulties you were - regret is a common feeling after having an abortion, but so is relief. I'm not 100% sure, but I really don't think severe depression is so common after an abortion - just because women are in therapy after having an abortion doesn't mean it was having a massively detrimental effect on their life.

here

this a article that tells THE TRUTH behind abortions. this will tie some lose ends.

^ Thank you for posting that. People just don't really get the facts behind abortions.

Girl next door:

here

this a article that tells THE TRUTH behind abortions. this will tie some lose ends.

Uhm.
MYTH: Women really need abortion for health reasons.
...
FACT: Add to this the fact that, at most, only five percent of all abortions are done for the mother's physical or psychological health. Rape and incest are cited as reasons for less than 1 % of all abortions.
According to Time Magazine, women's health reasons account for 12% of abortions (13% due to the fetus' health). I'd guess Time Magazine is a little more non-partisan than TennesseeRightToLife.org (Also, you'll see there - the abortion rate is falling).
And what, the woman who need abortions for health reasons need them less because they don't account for a bigger percentage of all abortions?

FACT: Nationally, 82 % of women obtaining abortions are unmarried. The statistics strongly suggest abortion is used as birth control.
No, it doesn't. Saying that just suggests that married women don't use birth control, which of course isn't true at all.

MYTH: No one knows when human life begins.

FACT: The California Medical Association referred to "the scientific fact, which everyone really knows, that human life begins at fertilization and is continuous whether intra- or extra-uterine until death.
Some life begins at conception - before conception, really; sperm and egg cells are alive. That doesn't make embryos people.

MYTH: The typical abortive women is a poor, black teen.

FACT: Two-thirds of women getting abortions are between the ages of 20 and 24. Sixty-eight percent are white. And two-thirds have an annual income of over $11,000.
And...middle-class twenty-something white women make better mothers, are more responsible, capable, and worthy of raising children than poor black teenagers? That's not a very nice thing to say.

We already know legal abortions are not safe - they can and do cause women to lose their lives and harm women physically and emotionally.
Abortions aren't 100% safe; no surgery is. People have died from having root canals. But it's purely stupid to suggest that illegal abortions are safer than legal ones. Not to mention "...according to the Guttmacher Institute, fewer than 0.3% of patients experience a complication serious enough to require hospitalization." That's from the same Time Magazine article, statistics by the same institution that Tennessee Right To Life article used.

Some have claimed that the number of illegal abortion-related deaths were not reported accurately or underreported. Yet, when a woman was seriously injured by an abortion, she went to another doctor for care. The abortion practitioner was rarely involved at that point. The new doctor in many cases had to attempt to save the mother's life. In cases of maternal death, this new doctor was required to report, and falsification of the death certificate was a felony. Therefore, prior to legalization of abortion, it's safe to say deaths from illegal abortions were rarely covered up.
Oh please. Yeah, every woman who had an illegal abortion went to a doctor when she was injured - even had access to one. Hello, hasn't anyone seen Dirty Dancing?

Sorry, apparently we have different definitions of "the truth".

NotOkay22:

I understand not wanting to have your life ruined, but their are other options other then just destroying the embryo.

Exactly - which is why a woman should examine all options when faced with an unwanted pregnancy. Abortion included.

Also, I don't know if it's fair to say that all of the women in therapy at your clinic were facing the same difficulties you were - regret is a common feeling after having an abortion, but so is relief. I'm not 100% sure, but I really don't think severe depression is so common after an abortion - just because women are in therapy after having an abortion doesn't mean it was having a massively detrimental effect on their life. [/quote]

Trust me, I met them...serious depression. Not depression that lasts for a few days and then you get on with your life...serious depression. Regret, nightmares, not eating/sleeping...that kind of depression. And unless you've ever had an abortion (which I don't think you have) then you wouldn't understand. [thats not meaning to sound snooty]

And of course, a women should examine all her options, abortions included. But Ive met some girls who when they find out they are pregnant, they see abortion as the easiest option. Not True.

LouderNow:

I'm 50/50 on abortions.

I think abortion is muder, unborn or not.
But what happens if its incest or rape? What happens then?

Ditto.
I think abortions is murder because its like not giving that child a chance to live. That child could end up to be a hero and end war for good or something.
But, if it is rape or incest, I think thats the only acception to have an abortion.
It is the mother's body and she should decide what happens, but if they weren't using protection then thats just dumb.

Fezzik:

Girl next door:

here

this a article that tells THE TRUTH behind abortions. this will tie some lose ends.

Uhm.

MYTH: Women really need abortion for health reasons.
...
FACT: Add to this the fact that, at most, only five percent of all abortions are done for the mother's physical or psychological health. Rape and incest are cited as reasons for less than 1 % of all abortions.
According to Time Magazine, women's health reasons account for 12% of abortions (13% due to the fetus' health). I'd guess Time Magazine is a little more non-partisan than TennesseeRightToLife.org (Also, you'll see there - the abortion rate is falling).
And what, the woman who need abortions for health reasons need them less because they don't account for a bigger percentage of all abortions?

FACT: Nationally, 82 % of women obtaining abortions are unmarried. The statistics strongly suggest abortion is used as birth control.
No, it doesn't. Saying that just suggests that married women don't use birth control, which of course isn't true at all.

MYTH: No one knows when human life begins.

FACT: The California Medical Association referred to "the scientific fact, which everyone really knows, that human life begins at fertilization and is continuous whether intra- or extra-uterine until death.
Some life begins at conception - before conception, really; sperm and egg cells are alive. That doesn't make embryos people.

MYTH: The typical abortive women is a poor, black teen.

FACT: Two-thirds of women getting abortions are between the ages of 20 and 24. Sixty-eight percent are white. And two-thirds have an annual income of over $11,000.
And...middle-class twenty-something white women make better mothers, are more responsible, capable, and worthy of raising children than poor black teenagers? That's not a very nice thing to say.

We already know legal abortions are not safe - they can and do cause women to lose their lives and harm women physically and emotionally.
Abortions aren't 100% safe; no surgery is. People have died from having root canals. But it's purely stupid to suggest that illegal abortions are safer than legal ones. Not to mention "...according to the Guttmacher Institute, fewer than 0.3% of patients experience a complication serious enough to require hospitalization." That's from the same Time Magazine article, statistics by the same institution that Tennessee Right To Life article used.

Some have claimed that the number of illegal abortion-related deaths were not reported accurately or underreported. Yet, when a woman was seriously injured by an abortion, she went to another doctor for care. The abortion practitioner was rarely involved at that point. The new doctor in many cases had to attempt to save the mother's life. In cases of maternal death, this new doctor was required to report, and falsification of the death certificate was a felony. Therefore, prior to legalization of abortion, it's safe to say deaths from illegal abortions were rarely covered up.
Oh please. Yeah, every woman who had an illegal abortion went to a doctor when she was injured - even had access to one. Hello, hasn't anyone seen Dirty Dancing?

Sorry, apparently we have different definitions of "the truth".

for one i bet you didn't read the whole article. what the article was saying is that abortionist don't tell you everything, and half of the deaths from the abortions are reported but summed up to make abortions seem like they're safer than what they are.yes people do die from all types of surgery, but what all types of surgeons say 'it one hundred percent safe, you have nothing to worry about' which is completely untrue. what i tried to tell you is that people are only looking at whats in front of them and not the little details in between. everything is dangerous but woman are so concerned with getting rid of the kid for the future that they aren't paying attention to what could happen to them in the present. they deaths due to abortion have gone down but woman are still dying TODAY.

and the 'FACT: Two-thirds of women getting abortions are between the ages of 20 and 24. Sixty-eight percent are white. And two-thirds have an annual income of over $11,000.[/i]
And...middle-class twenty-something white women make better mothers, are more responsible, capable, and worthy of raising children than poor black teenagers? That's not a very nice thing to say.'

that wasn't being racists if that's what you mean. they took what people said and did studies to find out that that's a complete lie. they didn't say they were better mothers, they said that they are done for more richer, older white woman get more abortions than the what the myth says. you twisted the words around to make it should completely different than what was actually said.

woman go to doctors after a legal abortion, not just illegal. the article said that woman are going through the same thing that a illegal abortion would do, even though its legal.

you can deny it all you want but abortions, legal or not, are dangerous and deadly.

the chart you had said that woman get abortions mainly because 'a baby would dramatically change my life' and 'i cant afford a baby right now', those are completely understandable. but the three after those are because of relationship problems, they finished having kids, and because they don't want people to know they got pregnant. all of these three reasons are incredibly ..stupid to me. you don't want to be a single mom, well good for you, you'll become one when you get married have a kid later, then get a divorce. if you finished having kids you could have found a better way from preventing the births in the first place, if you didn't you should've. and you didn't want people to know you were pregnant, now TH ATS a real selfish reason.

It's definitely prochoice.
Look at it this way:

if you got pregnant because of one mistake when you were fourteen, having the kid would ruin everything you have worked for. Just because a woman, and almost all of them extremely young, makes one mistake, does that mean she has to pay for that mistake the rest of her life?

Girl next door:

for one i bet you didn't read the whole article. what the article was saying is that abortionist don't tell you everything, and half of the deaths from the abortions are reported but summed up to make abortions seem like they're safer than what they are.yes people do die from all types of surgery, but what all types of surgeons say 'it one hundred percent safe, you have nothing to worry about' which is completely untrue. what i tried to tell you is that people are only looking at whats in front of them and not the little details in between. everything is dangerous but woman are so concerned with getting rid of the kid for the future that they aren't paying attention to what could happen to them in the present. they deaths due to abortion have gone down but woman are still dying TODAY.

That's not true. I mean, I've never had an abortion, but when I went to get my wisdom teeth taken out a year and a half ago, I got all the ins and outs of every danger, what might happen being under general anesthesia, if I had had local done, etc. Legally, doctors have to tell you the risks involved in any procedure you have done. If a surgeon ever tells you any surgery is 100% safe, they're lying and could be sued, even arrested. A surgeon might say "Well, _____, _____, and _____ might happen, but you really don't have anything to worry about because the chances of that are very slim," but that's not the same as calling something totally risk-free. Women have to be and (unless they're going to a quack) are informed of the risks of abortion before they have it done. Whether or not they take it to heart is their own issue.

Girl next door:

and the 'FACT: Two-thirds of women getting abortions are between the ages of 20 and 24. Sixty-eight percent are white. And two-thirds have an annual income of over $11,000.[/i]
And...middle-class twenty-something white women make better mothers, are more responsible, capable, and worthy of raising children than poor black teenagers? That's not a very nice thing to say.'

that wasn't being racists if that's what you mean. they took what people said and did studies to find out that that's a complete lie. they didn't say they were better mothers, they said that they are done for more richer, older white woman get more abortions than the what the myth says. you twisted the words around to make it should completely different than what was actually said.

What were they saying, then? What was the point of even putting that in? What kind of conclusions were they hoping people would draw? And don't get me started on twisting words.

Girl next door:

woman go to doctors after a legal abortion, not just illegal. the article said that woman are going through the same thing that a illegal abortion would do, even though its legal.

you can deny it all you want but abortions, legal or not, are dangerous and deadly.

I think you missed the point of what I meant. I was saying that it was ridiculous to assume that the number of deaths (or even injury, infection, etc.) by illegal abortions was accurately reported, because there's no chance in hell that all the women who were sick from an illegal abortion went to doctors for help.
And I never once tried to deny that abortions don't carry risk. I said "Abortions aren't 100% safe; no surgery is." All I'm saying is that legal abortions are safer than illegal abortions; that having an abortion legally considerably reduces chances of permanent damage, infection, injury, and death.

Girl next door:

the chart you had said that woman get abortions mainly because 'a baby would dramatically change my life' and 'i cant afford a baby right now', those are completely understandable. but the three after those are because of relationship problems, they finished having kids, and because they don't want people to know they got pregnant. all of these three reasons are incredibly ..stupid to me. you don't want to be a single mom, well good for you, you'll become one when you get married have a kid later, then get a divorce. if you finished having kids you could have found a better way from preventing the births in the first place, if you didn't you should've. and you didn't want people to know you were pregnant, now TH ATS a real selfish reason.

If you think those reasons are stupid, then don't have an abortion for those reasons. They're very real to the women who have abortions because of it. Being a single mother is incredibly difficult, and 'relationship problems' covers any number of things - including "my boyfriend / husband is an alcoholic and would hurt or kill any baby I had" etc.
Finished having kids - again, no birth control is 100%, even vasectomies and tubal ligations can be botched. Not to mention that usually when women are at the age where they're done having kids, the chances of any child they bear having a disability goes way up. Plus, you'll notice from that chart that women answered with more than one reason, I'd bet you anything that most of those women who said they were done having kids also said they couldn't afford a baby, because they couldn't afford any more kids. Some women would rather kill an embryo than have to pick their favorite kid to go to college.
And "don't want people to know I had sex or got pregnant"? Yeah, maybe it is a bit self-centered, but not everyone can handle the whispering among peers, quite possibly being kicked out of their house, having to explain to everyone they know why they're pregnant without wanting to be, who the father is, and where the baby is if they give it up for adoption. If you think you could handle that, more power to you, but not everyone is that strong.
My point is, judge all you want, but you don't know the individual circumstance for each woman. Who are you to say what reason is selfish and what's worthy?

NotOkay22:

Trust me, I met them...serious depression. Not depression that lasts for a few days and then you get on with your life...serious depression. Regret, nightmares, not eating/sleeping...that kind of depression. And unless you've ever had an abortion (which I don't think you have) then you wouldn't understand. [thats not meaning to sound snooty]

All right, I believe you - but you have to agree than not every women goes through that, and for some women it's better to have that regret and depression than bring an unwanted child into the world. Besides that, being depressed over an abortion is something you can (conceivably, I'm sure not in every case) get over - what's done is done, the past is the past, grieve and move on. Giving a child up for adoption, though, you're left to wonder what's happened to it ever day for the rest of your life.

Dust In The Wind:

Ditto.
I think abortions is murder because its like not giving that child a chance to live. That child could end up to be a hero and end war for good or something.
But, if it is rape or incest, I think thats the only acception to have an abortion.
It is the mother's body and she should decide what happens, but if they weren't using protection then thats just dumb.

1. The child could also end up to be the next Hitler or Stalin, could be the person to decide to launch a haul of nukes and destroy the world, etc. It works both ways.
2. Wait, what? You think only rape and health should be reasons to get abortions (and if you can come up with a way to regulate that, do share), but the mother should decide what happens? That contradicts itself. And women who are "dumb" enough not to use protection should be mothers over people who were responsible?

All right, I believe you - but you have to agree than not every women goes through that, and for some women it's better to have that regret and depression than bring an unwanted child into the world. Besides that, being depressed over an abortion is something you can (conceivably, I'm sure not in every case) get over - what's done is done, the past is the past, grieve and move on. Giving a child up for adoption, though, you're left to wonder what's happened to it ever day for the rest of your life.

Yes abortions can make you wonder, but I personally would have been happier (and almost every women in my therapy agreed) that I would rather live with the chance of my child living a good life, then know that they are dead and never even had a chance to experience the joys and pains of life.

And yes I agree that not every women has depression, I was just pointing out that depression after abortion is not at all rare.

^ 100% agreed. and everyone on this thread is too focused on the point woman doing it because of this unwanted child, that they don't seem to realize the abortion cause physical and mentally scarring, especially in younger girls.

here are some of the complications after abortions

crying shame.:

i am not for it, nor am i against it.
if you were raped or forced to have sex with someone and got pregnant, then i can see why you would want an abortion.
but if you were just fucking around with someone and decide to get one... to me that is just uncalled for. keep the baby, it was your own fault for fucking around.
but then again, if someone is raped or something horrible happens... they could keep the baby and put it up for adoption after it is born.
so, there are other options. but you will never know until you are in that situation.

Yep, yep yep.

Girl next door:

^ 100% agreed. and everyone on this thread is too focused on the point woman doing it because of this unwanted child, that they don't seem to realize the abortion cause physical and mentally scarring, especially in younger girls.

here are some of the complications after abortions

Of course abortions have consequences. It's not an easy out.
It's just that for some women, those consequences are easier and better to deal with than the consequences of having a child. Which is why she needs to make the decision on her own.

crying shame.:

i am not for it, nor am i against it.
if you were raped or forced to have sex with someone and got pregnant, then i can see why you would want an abortion.
but if you were just fucking around with someone and decide to get one... to me that is just uncalled for. keep the baby, it was your own fault for fucking around.
but then again, if someone is raped or something horrible happens... they could keep the baby and put it up for adoption after it is born.
so, there are other options. but you will never know until you are in that situation.

For God's sake, a baby should not be punishment for being irresponsible. That's a terrible thing to say. Children are supposed to be loved and celebrated, not resented and unwanted. With abortion, you're talking about a woman and an embryo. When that woman gives birth, there are two people involved, and it is absolutely cruel for that child to be brought into the world so the woman can pay her debt for being irresponsible. The women you're saying shouldn't get abortions would most likely be the worst mothers, even if only for the nine months they're pregnant.

Fezzik:

Of course abortions have consequences. It's not an easy out.
It's just that for some women, those consequences are easier and better to deal with than the consequences of having a child. Which is why she needs to make the decision on her own.

i'm not even gonna fight with you over this, i'm tired of typing the same thing.

Fezzik:

For God's sake, a baby should not be punishment for being irresponsible. That's a terrible thing to say. Children are supposed to be loved and celebrated, not resented and unwanted. With abortion, you're talking about a woman and an embryo. When that woman gives birth, there are two people involved, and it is absolutely cruel for that child to be brought into the world so the woman can pay her debt for being irresponsible. The women you're saying shouldn't get abortions would most likely be the worst mothers, even if only for the nine months they're pregnant.

it shouldnt be a punishment but in many cases it is. its sad but true. if someone acts like a slut and sleeps around, gets pregnant, no one will have any sympathy for her cause it was her own fault. the mothers would be bad parents, but adoption is there. mothers may be bad mothers for the nine months they're pregnant, but she's not gonna raise the kid. shes the mother by genes, but the real mother is the one who takes time to care for the kid. weither or not the baby gets adopoted he/she will still be raised in a orphanage, and the people there are his/hers family.

yea, its a evil thing for me to say, but its what came from my head, you cant change it. i'm a evil bitch, except it

How many times have we gone over this?

The portion of girls that are sleeping with some random guy and end up haviong an abortion are small. Most of these people are committed to partners.

Stop notioning that most women who get abortions are sluts. You shouldn't even be brining it up, because it's not true.

And just because some women regret their abortions doesn't mean it's wrong or should be illegal. It just means that clearly it's not for everyone, but IMO, the more abortions that happen in the next 20 years, the better.

^ how many do i have to explain it to you?

it may be small, but its not fair the small amount of teenage sluts get abortions because they cant keep their pants on.

and i didn't bring it up. read a couple of posts before mine and you'll see that.

TO ME its wrong. MY OPINION. i never said it SHOULD be illegal i WISH it would be, but because i wish does that mean its right

you can believe what you want, but in MY OPINION the more people who learn about the danger of abortion, the better. it'll hopefully make woman actually THINK before getting one.

how can you say that women should get abortions. Fezzik even said she doesn't want women getting abortions, and you say you want them too.

Read the last article i had. when a woman gets a abortion it damages her cervices, which will affect her ability for her to have a wanted child in future. it may turn into a miscarried. if she wants a abortion fine, she'll get one, but theres a huge chance it'll hurt her later.

i dont care that 'not all woman go through that' I KNOW. but you never know if a woman will get hurt or not

You know, it may be small, but the amount of teenage rapes....

Eh, it's like marriage. Just because some people get divorced doesn't mean everyone does. So those good people shouldn't suffer for someone elses mess up

Saying you wish abortion is legal, IMO is the same as saying it should be legal. Explain to me how you could mean it any different.

Me? I love the idea because of population control. I don't care how the population is controled as long as it doesn't involve live slaughter. Tube ties, abortions, birth control, whatever it takes. People think so much about the here and now that no one gives a crapo about the dangers of the future.

Read the last article i had. when a woman gets a abortion it damages her cervices, which will affect her ability for her to have a wanted child in future. it may turn into a miscarried. if she wants a abortion fine, she'll get one, but theres a huge chance it'll hurt her later.

Abortion can be dangerous, but out of so many women, all of those things don't happen very often. Women know what they are getting into before they get an abortion, or most of them should. We talk about it in our health class, and friends of mine that have gotten them discussed it with a doctor before anything. Once again, it's their choice. It's like skydiving. You know the risks, but to you it's worth it.

For you, be against an abortion for yourself yes, but like I said time and time again, just because it's not for you doesn't mean it won't help out millions of women out there. It's a gamble, but the small risk of an accident is well worth it to people other then yourself.

Fezzik:

For God's sake, a baby should not be punishment for being irresponsible. That's a terrible thing to say. Children are supposed to be loved and celebrated, not resented and unwanted. With abortion, you're talking about a woman and an embryo. When that woman gives birth, there are two people involved, and it is absolutely cruel for that child to be brought into the world so the woman can pay her debt for being irresponsible. The women you're saying shouldn't get abortions would most likely be the worst mothers, even if only for the nine months they're pregnant.

excuse me hun, did you not see what i just said? i said i was not for it, NOR AM I against it.
holy shit. if it makes you feel better i will never get an abortion, but damn... you can't change someone's mind and make them NOT get one of they want it.
that is all i am saying. but please.. don't attack me.

I really don't know about abortions. To be honest, I think that women have the right to. Would you really want the kid to be sent to an orphanage? Or end up living with a single mother who can't look after them?