Abortions.

wow... this topic was so alive last night, and now it just seems to have died... like the innocent babies it's talking about...

^ Life must be soooo gr8 when ya 18 huh ? Things are either right or wrong eh ?? Well meanwhile bk in the "Real World" things aint soooo rosey an women have to make heartwrenching decisions that usually stays with them forever...Who the fcuk are we to say whether they are right or wrong to terminate ???
People need to calm the fcuk down and walk a mile in a womans shoes who has chose to abort her unborn child for whatever reason.
Get off ya "Soap Boxes" and moral highground and take a look around every once and a while.

i've done it. i've spent hours talking to women who've aborted... and no, i wasn't one of them, so obviously just talking to them isn't nearly enough to fully understand what they're going through... but though i wasn't a woman who was aborted, i was nearly aborted.... so technically i've been there... wow, that sounds really lame... anyway... i don't have a soapbox, i have an effing platform... and no, life isn't exactly gr8. sometimes, it really sucks... but at least i've got one... which is more than i can say for millions of poeple who were never given that option... things aren't always right and wrong... at least not right off the bat anyways. you have to look into the situation with careful scrutiny to determine that... and who are we to determine that anyway? i know i'm sure as hell not God. are you?

You do realize that if we never legalized abortion, American's population would be 1/4th bigger, as one in every 4 babies are aborted (that shocked me) Around 2020-2041, we will be facing population control issues. Thanks to immigration and the amount of children being born a year, those years will be hell unless we can control our population. We will be moving on the same road China will be on. Assuming Abortion was allowed, this proccess of severe famine, unemployment, and overpopulation would have already taken effect.

Basically, I think it takes a very selfish person to care more about something that isn't even alive VS the entire population of America. I hope the amounts of abortion increase and childbirth decreases in the near future, or our children will be more prone to serious poverty issues.

Hence the main reason I am pro abortion and anti immigration

Penny for my thoughts?

^Though I'm pro-choice, I'm not hoping that there are more abortions in the near future. I hope the number of abortions here in the United States decrease. In order to do that, serious improvement is needed for sex education so that women will know all their options- how to have safe sex and how to avoid getting pregnant.

XD I can understand that. I am just very worried about the longtime effects of mass childbirth in the USA. if super birth control was invented or we could evaporate the unwanted embryos, that would would be great as well...but...

^I can completely understand that. Our natural resources will only last us so long. But I think that in time, we'll be able to come up with better methods of birth control in order to get the population down to a manageable level.

LoversHeartDisease:

Basically, I think it takes a very selfish person to care more about something that isn't even alive VS the entire population of America. I hope the amounts of abortion increase and childbirth decreases in the near future, or our children will be more prone to serious poverty issues.

and its better just to kill a living thing (it IS alive, it cant think and all the other crap you've been saying, but it IS alive) for our population? you have any idea how sick you sound?!!! you say it takes a selfish to care about the THOUSANDS of embryos that are killed EVERY DAY just for our population! THAT has to be the most selfish thing EVER thought up! you're belittling a embryo because you think it'll help our population issue!

i agree with ayn_inverse. there's better ways of settling the population than having women getting abortions. when you do that you're treating it like birth control, which it isn't. abortions is a LAST RESORT, not a way of preventing poverty! if a woman wants to get a abortion its for HER reasons, not because you think it'll help the population

LoversHeartDisease:

XD I can understand that. I am just very worried about the longtime effects of mass childbirth in the USA. if super birth control was invented or we could evaporate the unwanted embryos, that would would be great as well...but...

haven't you heard??? there is this wonderful form of birth control out there... completely free, 100% effective, no harmful side effects to the woman using it now or in the long run... want to know what it is??? ABSTINENCE!!! YAY!!! was that so effing hard? of course it was because the majority of americans don't know what it is to keep their pants on and not go around buggering everything that moves... (are british swearwords acceptable?)

genresR4losers:

LoversHeartDisease:

XD I can understand that. I am just very worried about the longtime effects of mass childbirth in the USA. if super birth control was invented or we could evaporate the unwanted embryos, that would would be great as well...but...

haven't you heard??? there is this wonderful form of birth control out there... completely free, 100% effective, no harmful side effects to the woman using it now or in the long run... want to know what it is??? ABSTINENCE!!! YAY!!! was that so effing hard? of course it was because the majority of americans don't know what it is to keep their pants on and not go around buggering everything that moves... (are british swearwords acceptable?)

Do I have to go over the "sex isn't just sex, its' a form of love" speech again. GOD I hope not.

I don't think I sound sick at all. Something that wouldn't even know it's dead as a sacrifice for those who have lived and deserve to live happy lifes. Are you suggesting that those embryos of things that don't even think are worth more then our future generation of living children?

There are other ways to control populations, but if you look at the stats, abortion splices the population into 3/4ths of what it should be. It's not the only method, but it sure helps

i'm not going into that "sex isn't just sex, its' a form of love" speech... i'm just aaying that people should be more responsible for their actions... if people were more responsible than this issue of mass murder wouldn't be nearly as prominent as it is...

other than that... they aren't just embryos of things... they are little miniature humans... very miniature, mind you, but humans nonetheless... i'm not suggesting that it's more important, but just as... after all, perhaps the genreation of children that is bring wiped out would help the generation of people that is killing it! ever though about that?

and maybe, the children that are killed could have gone on to cure cancer, or find other ways of controlling the population that don't involve harming other members of the species... yes, the population does need to monitored tosome degree, but seriously, the earth is already overpopulated... does that mean that we can go around killing older children and adults to make room for the up and coming? no. i don't see why this should be any different.

the survival of the species depends on it's ability to adapt to increasingly more challenging and difficult environments... i'm always up for a challenge... how about you?

genresR4losers:

haven't you heard??? there is this wonderful form of birth control out there... completely free, 100% effective, no harmful side effects to the woman using it now or in the long run... want to know what it is??? ABSTINENCE!!! YAY!!! was that so effing hard? of course it was because the majority of americans don't know what it is to keep their pants on and not go around buggering everything that moves... (are british swearwords acceptable?)

Oh, riiiight - so I'll just tell my husband to keep it in his pants for the next three or four years, until we're ready to have another baby, shall I? Umm, yeah, because he'll be psyched about that option.
Your view on this topic seems to me to be incredibly narrow-minded, in fact, I'll go a step further and declare it to be outright ignorant.
Not every woman who terminates a pregnancy is in that situation because she 'couldn't keep her pants on' or 'buggered everything that moves'.

Oh, and P.S. - 'buggery' is a slang term for sodomy, which, if you ever took sex ed, you'll know is NOT the way babies are made.

well, i'm not speaking about married couples when i say to keep your pants on... i thought that that would be obvious... oh well, i guess i'm not the only ignorant one now, am i? what i'm saying is keep your pants on until your married, then you can do whatever you want... (but, that's religious beliefs and i have a whole other thread to argue that one on...)

it's not narrowminded, it's carefully researched... as i've previously mentioned, i lost count of how many times... data can be interpreted many different ways... this is merely how i interpret it for myself... however, when people go around killing innocent babies because their inconvenient... that's what i have a problem with... so i wouldn't go that step further unless your absolutely sure of your footing... wouldn't want you to fall on your face now would we?

i realize that not every woman that wants to kill her baby is in that situation because she couldn't keep her pants on... i'm going to refer to a previous post that i made, and say that research has shown that if every woman on the planet were to get pregnant today, at most, 5 would die from not having abortions... so, if you weigh the pros and cons, then it really isn't necessary... there are thousands, proabably millions of couples out there willing to do anything for a child of their own and people are out there blatantly throwing them in dumpsters because their inconvenient... that's just stupid...

oh, and in reference to your PS, i know what it means, i was just trying to be nice... i've already been fussed at once for swearing in the forum... it was just the first word that came into my mind... i know how babies are made... otherwise i wouldn't be in this forum telling people to keep their pants on... again, proving that i am not the only ignorant one...

LoversHeartDisease:

Do I have to go over the "sex isn't just sex, its' a form of love" speech again. GOD I hope not.

I don't think I sound sick at all. Something that wouldn't even know it's dead as a sacrifice for those who have lived and deserve to live happy lifes. Are you suggesting that those embryos of things that don't even think are worth more then our future generation of living children?

There are other ways to control populations, but if you look at the stats, abortion splices the population into 3/4ths of what it should be. It's not the only method, but it sure helps

the 'form of love' speech is irrelevant to the conversation. stop making it seem like that's what we're talking about, its not.

you sound pretty disgusting to me. the world is already overpopulated, like genresR4losers has said, abortions would pretty much slow it down to the point were hardly anyone would have a kid and the race would crumble.

and the population wouldn't stop all of the problems if that's what you think. crime, natural disasters, etc, would still be happening. so the next generation wouldn't lead 'happy lives' because the population went down a little, if it think it will you need to re-think it.

NO ONE will stop having kids and get abortions because you think they're 'inconvenient', so your wish of more abortions most likely wont happen. even pro-choice people want the abortion rate to go down. wanting it go up, wow you've got issues.

genresR4losers:

well, i'm not speaking about married couples when i say to keep your pants on... i thought that that would be obvious... oh well, i guess i'm not the only ignorant one now, am i? what i'm saying is keep your pants on until your married, then you can do whatever you want... (but, that's religious beliefs and i have a whole other thread to argue that one on...)

it's not narrowminded, it's carefully researched... as i've previously mentioned, i lost count of how many times... data can be interpreted many different ways... this is merely how i interpret it for myself... however, when people go around killing innocent babies because their inconvenient... that's what i have a problem with... so i wouldn't go that step further unless your absolutely sure of your footing... wouldn't want you to fall on your face now would we?

i realize that not every woman that wants to kill her baby is in that situation because she couldn't keep her pants on... i'm going to refer to a previous post that i made, and say that research has shown that if every woman on the planet were to get pregnant today, at most, 5 would die from not having abortions... so, if you weigh the pros and cons, then it really isn't necessary... there are thousands, proabably millions of couples out there willing to do anything for a child of their own and people are out there blatantly throwing them in dumpsters because their inconvenient... that's just stupid...

oh, and in reference to your PS, i know what it means, i was just trying to be nice... i've already been fussed at once for swearing in the forum... it was just the first word that came into my mind... i know how babies are made... otherwise i wouldn't be in this forum telling people to keep their pants on... again, proving that i am not the only ignorant one...

All right, you've really got to stop with the "killing babies" bit. Even if you want to believe an embryo should be counted as a person, it's not a baby until it's born. That kind of emotionally-charged propaganda just gets annoying.

And what about couples in a committed relationship? What about couples that have been together for years and years? Just because they don't have a bit of paper saying they share a toothbrush holder, they can't have sex if they don't want a baby? Sex is an expression of love; there's nothing wrong with that.

You're talking about aborted embryos being thrown in dumpsters - infanticide is higher in areas where abortion isn't readily available or is illegal. About a year ago a desperate teenager gave birth to a baby in her bedroom, then had her boyfriend put it in a duffel bag and throw it in the garbage outside my cousin's deli. Luckily the baby was found and saved, but believe what you want - it's fact that embryos feel no pain when aborted. Much better to throw 'em in a dumpster then than when they'll feel it.

And don't assume that every woman who has an abortion for non-medical reasons and who wasn't raped is just doing it because it's 'inconvenient'; like it's some little bother she's having taken care of. Women think long and hard before having an abortion; it's something that comes with it's own set of consequences that women have to deal with. No one has an abortion on a whim, no one has an abortion if they don't truly believe that it's the best thing to do for everyone. Don't condemn women (or anyone, for that matter) before you can honestly say you completely understand their circumstances - which, most likely, unless you have some kind of out-of-body experience, you can't.

And please, please don't start the whole "an aborted child could have cured cancer" thing. Yes, it could've been the next Einstein, but it could've been the next Hitler too (who was an unwanted child, as it were). It goes both ways. Besides, with the way our population's growing, another wanted future-genius would be conceived not to long after one was aborted.

Girl next door:

the 'form of love' speech is irrelevant to the conversation. stop making it seem like that's what we're talking about, its not.

you sound pretty disgusting to me. the world is already overpopulated, like genresR4losers has said, abortions would pretty much slow it down to the point were hardly anyone would have a kid and the race would crumble.

NO ONE will stop having kids and get abortions because you think they're 'inconvenient', so your wish of more abortions most likely wont happen. even pro-choice people want the abortion rate to go down. wanting it go up, wow you've got issues.

You've just contradicted yourself, if I'm reading correctly (I might not be, several hours of trig review and art history tend to do that do me). We're not going to abort ourselves into extinction; we're not that stupid. And there will always be people who want children, and many children, at that.

And sex being a form of love is not irrelevant; sex is how you make babies, duh. The point is it's not just for making babies, which is important. Sex is pretty much essential to any mature committed relationship, whether marriage is involved or not, and using sex only to make babies (thereby eliminating unwanted pregnancies, thereby eliminating abortion) is not just not going to happen, but is totally ridiculous. The kind of talk people start on this board, about punishing women for having sex with children and not having sex unless you're totally ready to have a child all comes from the idea that sex is something dirty and bad, which it absolutely isn't. The "sex is an expression of love" argument is really essential to this discussion.

SAVE THE SPECIES!!! (that one goes for 2 comments up...)

Fezzik:

You're talking about aborted embryos being thrown in dumpsters - infanticide is higher in areas where abortion isn't readily available or is illegal. About a year ago a desperate teenager gave birth to a baby in her bedroom, then had her boyfriend put it in a duffel bag and throw it in the garbage outside my cousin's deli. Luckily the baby was found and saved, but believe what you want - it's fact that embryos feel no pain when aborted. Much better to throw 'em in a dumpster then than when they'll feel it.

And don't assume that every woman who has an abortion for non-medical reasons and who wasn't raped is just doing it because it's 'inconvenient'; like it's some little bother she's having taken care of. Women think long and hard before having an abortion; it's something that comes with it's own set of consequences that women have to deal with. No one has an abortion on a whim, no one has an abortion if they don't truly believe that it's the best thing to do for everyone. Don't condemn women (or anyone, for that matter) before you can honestly say you completely understand their circumstances - which, most likely, unless you have some kind of out-of-body experience, you can't.

And please, please don't start the whole "an aborted child could have cured cancer" thing. Yes, it could've been the next Einstein, but it could've been the next Hitler too (who was an unwanted child, as it were). It goes both ways. Besides, with the way our population's growing, another wanted future-genius would be conceived not to long after one was aborted.[/size][/font]

OK the whole a 'baby could be a Hitler or a Einstein' is OUT of the conversation, its going in circles.

and Fezzik talking to a person and feeling their pain with abortions and birth, is like taking a walk in their shoes, so knock it off. i know what it feels like to have to go through something that scares the hell outta you.

and babies being thrown in dumpsters. what makes you think that all girls who go through with birth are gonna do that to their babies after? only a heartless witch would do that to their own child. it happens but not ALL girls are gonna do that. but to give you a taste of your own medicine, a baby wouldn't know if it died or not, so throwing a baby in a dumpster and abortions are a lot alike, the only difference is that the baby is more developed than the embryo and is outside the womb

firstly, i haven't got to stop with anything... i'll say what i want so long as it isn't swearing b/c apparently that's looked down upon in this forum... i call it a baby becuse that's what it is... just because a plant is just sprouting, doesn't mean it's a plant. just because a baby isn't fully developed, doesn't mean it's not a baby. it's not emotionally charged propoganda, it's my own scientifically backed opinion... if you want to dehumanize it because it makes you feel better, go right ahead... i'm not stopping you...

again, my ignorance is not to quesiton here... i'm not saying that married couples can't have sex, i'm just saying that if married couples don't want to have children at the moment, they should take precautions to make sure that that doesn't happen... wouldn't that benefit everybody? don't answer that because you know it would...

and fyi, it's not a fact that embryos don't feel pain when aborted... it's just educated speculation... something like that can't be proven... or if you can manage to resurrect an aborted baby to ask it if it felt pain before it died, then go right ahead and make sure you pm me to let me know how that goes... i wasn't talking about delivered babies being thrown in dumpsters... though that is remarkably tragic, i was referring to babies that were killed and then "from their mother's womb untimely ripped" (sorry, i just felt like throwing some shakespeare in there) and i say, why throw it in a dumpster at all... hasn't anyone ever heard of adoption?

i didn't say that every woman who has an abortion for the aforementioned causes has it because it's inconvenient, i merely hinted at it. that was a hint, however that is backed up my research... why doesn't anyone else bother to do their homework?! i hate arguing with ignorant people... they just don't seem to want to listen to reason... (and yes i realize that that can easily be turned against me, but it's late and i'm tired, and really could care less) i'm not condemning anyone... merely their decisions... there's a difference... 98% of women who've had abortions said that they regret it... with so sever of emotional reprocussions, don't you think that someone should warn these women of what they're getting into? but, no one does... they just see an easy out, and again, mostly don't do their homework...

don't tell me to not start the whole aborted child could cure cancer thing when i've already started it... an intelligent thing to say would be "please don't continue it." and perhaps our population is multiplying like rabits, but AGAIN as i previously mentioned... the only species that survive are those that are able to adapt to a a continuously changing environment... so, shouldn't we learn to deal with a growing population AS WELL AS try to find some means by which to slow the birth rate (but not halt it) that didn't do harm to the species??? don't answer that, b/c you already know the logical answer to it...

Girl next door:

and Fezzik talking to a person and feeling their pain with abortions and birth, is like taking a walk in their shoes, so knock it off. i know what it feels like to have to go through something that scares the hell outta you.

and babies being thrown in dumpsters. what makes you think that all girls who go through with birth are gonna do that to their babies after? only a heartless witch would do that to their own child. it happens but not ALL girls are gonna do that. but to give you a taste of your own medicine, a baby wouldn't know if it died or not, so throwing a baby in a dumpster and abortions are a lot alike, the only difference is that the baby is more developed than the embryo and is outside the womb

People can't totally grasp experiences until they've lived it. It's just beyond our imagination. Some people can grasp things more deeply than others, but only the pregnant woman can totally understand herself and her situation.

And babies do know when they die. They can feel the pain of starving to death or dying of exposure. They are conscious and aware of the world around them; just because they can't tell us this with words doesn't mean they aren't. It's not alike. I know not all women would do that to a child, I was just illustrating a point about infantacide (and I don't think it's fair to call that girl, or anyone who does that, totally heartless - she was obviously out of her mind with fear). Not all women would do that, but you can bet more would if they didn't have the option of abortion.