Abortions.

yes, that's true... but... why not adoption... speaking from personal experience... i can say that i like it a whole lot better than the concept of being dead...

well, i have 8 AM class in a few hours, i'll pick this up later on in the day... toodles... and don't worry, i'll have plenty of more retorts this afternoon, i'm just REALLY tired right now...

genresR4losers:

again, my ignorance is not to quesiton here... i'm not saying that married couples can't have sex, i'm just saying that if married couples don't want to have children at the moment, they should take precautions to make sure that that doesn't happen... wouldn't that benefit everybody? don't answer that because you know it would...

Most married couples do use birth control. It's not 100%. Nothing is, except abstinence, which we already went over. Accidents happen, people get pregnant anyway. What are they supposed to do?

genresR4losers:

and fyi, it's not a fact that embryos don't feel pain when aborted... it's just educated speculation... something like that can't be proven... or if you can manage to resurrect an aborted baby to ask it if it felt pain before it died, then go right ahead and make sure you pm me to let me know how that goes... i wasn't talking about delivered babies being thrown in dumpsters... though that is remarkably tragic, i was referring to babies that were killed and then "from their mother's womb untimely ripped" (sorry, i just felt like throwing some shakespeare in there) and i say, why throw it in a dumpster at all... hasn't anyone ever heard of adoption?

They don't have the nerve cells. We can't be totally positive, but we can be totally positive that it's not feeling much, and the woman carrying it most definitely is.
And I won't go into my super-sarcastic "Oh adoption is so easy" speech because I've still got three pages of math calling my name. Suffice to say, not every woman can handle and unwanted pregnancy, not every woman would take care of her body well enough to produce a child people would want to adopt, and not everyone can deal with spending the rest of their life wondering what's happened to their child, if they're safe, if they're happy, or if they're stuck in some awful foster home or orphanage.

Edit: Oh, and you can be aware of being dead if you were never aware of being alive. You can miss what you never had.

genresR4losers:

i didn't say that every woman who has an abortion for the aforementioned causes has it because it's inconvenient, i merely hinted at it. that was a hint, however that is backed up my research... why doesn't anyone else bother to do their homework?! i hate arguing with ignorant people... they just don't seem to want to listen to reason... (and yes i realize that that can easily be turned against me, but it's late and i'm tired, and really could care less) i'm not condemning anyone... merely their decisions... there's a difference... 98% of women who've had abortions said that they regret it... with so sever of emotional reprocussions, don't you think that someone should warn these women of what they're getting into? but, no one does... they just see an easy out, and again, mostly don't do their homework...

Actually quite a few abortion clinics require counseling before allowing a woman to have the procedure. The one NotOkay22 went to, at least, had therapy sessions available afterwards. And if women have emotional difficulties after an abortion, that's their own problem that they have to deal with. No one's ever said abortions an easy out; it's just better for some people than carrying their pregnancy to term. And yes, there's a difference, but don't condemn women's decisions before you totally understand their circumstances, either.

genresR4losers:

don't tell me to not start the whole aborted child could cure cancer thing when i've already started it... an intelligent thing to say would be "please don't continue it." and perhaps our population is multiplying like rabits, but AGAIN as i previously mentioned... the only species that survive are those that are able to adapt to a a continuously changing environment... so, shouldn't we learn to deal with a growing population AS WELL AS try to find some means by which to slow the birth rate (but not halt it) that didn't do harm to the species??? don't answer that, b/c you already know the logical answer to it...

Hey, I'm not the one who wants abortion rates to increase. I think we should be more concerned with educating people on birth control and making it widely available. I'd rather see a fall in abortion rates because there are less unwanted pregnancies, though, not because the government is forcing women to take on motherhood. Yeah, we need to figure out how to deal with the increase in population, but it sure would be nice if we could do that without the added pressure of a few million extra people.
And if we're going to start nit-picking the semantics of each other's grammar, maybe yous should quit the ellipsis and triple question marks.

You all are getting incredibly hostile towards each other.
The attacks on opinions shouldn't be happening.
So please, if you're going to question someone's opinions or beliefs, do it in a courteous manner.
To each his own.

Quote

and babies being thrown in dumpsters. what makes you think that all girls who go through with birth are gonna do that to their babies after? only a heartless witch would do that to their own child.

I'll definitely have to disagree with you there.
It doesn't take a heartless witch to abandon her baby.
It does take a scared, confused, unsure girl who doesn't know how she's going to take care of a child.

genresR4losers:

yes, that's true... but... why not adoption... speaking from personal experience... i can say that i like it a whole lot better than the concept of being dead...

adoption centers are already overcrowded. No one wants these kids, because they are American babies, and the people that do file for american babies often enever evevn get them. Sad truth.

That would also still require the birth proccess, which..hell, is the most painful thing a normal woman will ever live through

Oh, and it costs a lot too. Not just the birth. ultrasounds and other subcosts that add up majorly. Hospitals arn't very sensitive just because you don't want the baby.

This ones a little silly but true. Think about how long that means a woman if forced to carry that child. How long she has to be fat, spend money on food, stop a normal life, and think about a thing growing inside her that she probably despises. I couldn't imagine.

I personally care more about things that are alive then not alive.

and to me, well, alive would mean you can actually think. I hate prolifers little technicalities like "tiny little heartbeat" etc (which doesn't even come right away mind you)
I would like to be a person that protects the right of the living: those with emotions and memories..oh..people who actually deserve them. What a prolifer is really saying is "The life of something that doesn't even know it exists, that has never felt pain or pleasure or love for that world, that has not even developed into a real human, deserves more rights then a real human being, and you have all been calling me sick. That pretty much sickens me.

What im trying to say is stop trying to find proxies to make more babies in the world. It's like your trying to FORCE the idea that these things are actual people, when really, it has not even developed into a real person yet.

Girl next door:

...only a heartless witch would do that to their own child.

See, there's the primest example of the ignorance I mentioned earlier that I've seen so far.
A woman who was driven to cmmit infanticide is extremely unlikely to be a 'heartless witch' - more than anything, she'd have done such a thing because she was scared out of her mind, at her wits' end, and suffering from some degree of mental illness - which, just as abortion can cause depression, pregnancy and the hormone let-down afterwards are much more likely to be detrimental to a woman's state of mind. I myself have been having some trouble coping after the birth of my daughter, simply because of messed-up hormones, battered self-esteem (after putting on 25 kilograms in a relatively short period of time, and suffering from acne because of the stupid hormones, I'm not exactly feeling pretty these days), and having absolutely no confidence in my parenting skills, seeing as until a few weeks ago they were pretty much non-existant - all I had was what you have: lots of hearts-and-flowers theories taken from books and TV shows. Let me tell you - they're so wrong it's not funny. I wouldn't wish parenthood on anybody but those who are determined to experience it, because it's a lot more pain than it is pleasure. Same goes for the ordeal of childbirth - it's traumatic. The most horrific experience I've ever been through, and I won't sit here and take some 15-year-old know-it-all telling me they know better, that parenting (or at least going through pregnancy and childbirth and giving it up for adoption) is easier, or a better choice, than having an abortion. Talk to all the women in the world who've had abortions and felt down afterwards, I don't give a rats'. You still don't have a clue what you're talking about, nor will you unless you yourself are lying on that table having the operation, or go through with 10 months (don't argue with me, 40 weeks equals 10 months) of pregnancy and then give birth to a child.

Standing on your soapbox and declaring that any woman who doesn't want her child is a 'heartless witch' is absolutely ridiculous, and just proves to me how narrow-minded and misinformed your opinions are. And I'd have to say that it's your stubbornness, not simple ignorance, leading to this - there's a good 90 pages worth of education here to help you out, and you're just too busy galloping around on your moral high horse to see good sense.

Put simply, desperate times call for desperate measures, and a frightened, alone, ill person can quite easily see an act like dumping a newborn in the trash as their only option. Think about it this way - perhaps she'd taken herself off to the clinic when she found out she was pregnant, but was harrassed at the gates by moronic pro-lifers who think they know better than everyone, and think they have a God-given right to preach to all and sundry, and she couldn't take the pressure they put on her, and didn't get an abortion.
And that lead her to ruin two lives instead of making the right choice for her.

I'll admit, chances are it didn't happen that way, but it gives you something to think about, doesn't it? Are the pro-lifers picketing outside clinics willing to pay all medical costs, sign the adoption papers and take the unwanted child into their homes themselves? If not, I don't feel they have any right to try and force their opinion on anybody else. They're not going to shoulder anybody else's burden, so they shouldn't ask anybody to shoulder a burden that isn't even theirs (and by that, I mean they shouldn't ask anybody to change their minds about getting an abortion, ask anybody to take on beliefs that aren't truly theirs - ie try to convince somebody who doesn't already believe it, that abortion is murder or that embryos are babies - or make a person feel guilty for their choices).

Abortion isn't the prettiest way to deal with an unwanted pregnancy, but it is a perfectly legitimate way. No one on this Earth has a right to tell you what you can and can't do in a situation like that. Imagine being TOLD that the baby you carry was to be kept and taken care of. It wouldn't be a joy, it'd be a burden. No one needs to be raised with the knowledge that they were unwanted.
If it's God you're worried about, well, it's not your soul and it's not really your problem. Unless you're the woman or the father (and even that's shaky) then it's really none of your business.
C&S makes a good point. People are willing to fight for the unborn child, but are any of them willing to take that baby home?
Yea, no.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think the government (At least in England) is thinking of (or was) the father to have a say on abortion too. As in, if he wants the child, he'd be able to appeal his case to the courts.

I think that's a terrable idea. It's not his body that's going to be changing constantly for 40 weeks, and like it's been said, childbirth is very traumatic, but I'm sure it must be made worse if the mother was forced into the pregnancy.

If the father really wants the baby, he should talk it over with my mother, see if they can come to some kind agreement on it.

Fezzik:

Girl next door:

and Fezzik talking to a person and feeling their pain with abortions and birth, is like taking a walk in their shoes, so knock it off. i know what it feels like to have to go through something that scares the hell outta you.

and babies being thrown in dumpsters. what makes you think that all girls who go through with birth are gonna do that to their babies after? only a heartless witch would do that to their own child. it happens but not ALL girls are gonna do that. but to give you a taste of your own medicine, a baby wouldn't know if it died or not, so throwing a baby in a dumpster and abortions are a lot alike, the only difference is that the baby is more developed than the embryo and is outside the womb

People can't totally grasp experiences until they've lived it. It's just beyond our imagination. Some people can grasp things more deeply than others, but only the pregnant woman can totally understand herself and her situation.

And babies do know when they die. They can feel the pain of starving to death or dying of exposure. They are conscious and aware of the world around them; just because they can't tell us this with words doesn't mean they aren't. It's not alike. I know not all women would do that to a child, I was just illustrating a point about infantacide (and I don't think it's fair to call that girl, or anyone who does that, totally heartless - she was obviously out of her mind with fear). Not all women would do that, but you can bet more would if they didn't have the option of abortion.

-cough-

Hi!...Ive lived it. And as you saw in earlier posts, it went terrible. I guess I'm just a bit confused of how people expect me to say that abortion is ok, when it completely ruined my life. I mean I know that sometimes it makes lives better, but If you went through what I did and saw the things I did then you would understand my opinion. You might not agree, but you would have a better concept of where I'm coming from, because like you've said, you don't fully understand what its like until you've lived it.

I am in the middle of a book that's based in 18th century France. A women gave birth in the street and planned on just leaving the baby there to die. It turns out that she has done that with 5 babies before. Kind of sickening to imagine. I guess reading about the dumpster thing I just thought of the book. Kind of spammish

I'm completely prochoice for a few reasons.

for one, what say do we have in what a person, anyone, does to or with their body? It's not a morality issue because I think morality is mostly bs anyway. How do we know how a woman got pregnant in the first place and why is it ANY of our bussiness? We don't know their reasons. maybe the condom broke, maybe someone forgot jsut one time to take that pill. etc.

for another thing, what if a woman who is pregnant doesn't want the child, but unable to find a safe secure way to get rid of it because the government has decided it's wrong? Most women will find another way, more specifically a way that will most likely kill them or leave serious damage such as to use a wire hanger.

Which would you rather? Fetuses that were never wanted in the first place gone, or hundreds of women AND fetuses gone?

Cigarettes And Suicide:

See, there's the primest example of the ignorance I mentioned earlier that I've seen so far.
A woman who was driven to cmmit infanticide is extremely unlikely to be a 'heartless witch' - more than anything, she'd have done such a thing because she was scared out of her mind, at her wits' end, and suffering from some degree of mental illness - which, just as abortion can cause depression, pregnancy and the hormone let-down afterwards are much more likely to be detrimental to a woman's state of mind. I myself have been having some trouble coping after the birth of my daughter, simply because of messed-up hormones, battered self-esteem (after putting on 25 kilograms in a relatively short period of time, and suffering from acne because of the stupid hormones, I'm not exactly feeling pretty these days), and having absolutely no confidence in my parenting skills, seeing as until a few weeks ago they were pretty much non-existant - all I had was what you have: lots of hearts-and-flowers theories taken from books and TV shows. Let me tell you - they're so wrong it's not funny. I wouldn't wish parenthood on anybody but those who are determined to experience it, because it's a lot more pain than it is pleasure. Same goes for the ordeal of childbirth - it's traumatic. The most horrific experience I've ever been through, and I won't sit here and take some 15-year-old know-it-all telling me they know better, that parenting (or at least going through pregnancy and childbirth and giving it up for adoption) is easier, or a better choice, than having an abortion. Talk to all the women in the world who've had abortions and felt down afterwards, I don't give a rats'. You still don't have a clue what you're talking about, nor will you unless you yourself are lying on that table having the operation, or go through with 10 months (don't argue with me, 40 weeks equals 10 months) of pregnancy and then give birth to a child.

Standing on your soapbox and declaring that any woman who doesn't want her child is a 'heartless witch' is absolutely ridiculous, and just proves to me how narrow-minded and misinformed your opinions are. And I'd have to say that it's your stubbornness, not simple ignorance, leading to this - there's a good 90 pages worth of education here to help you out, and you're just too busy galloping around on your moral high horse to see good sense.

Put simply, desperate times call for desperate measures, and a frightened, alone, ill person can quite easily see an act like dumping a newborn in the trash as their only option. Think about it this way - perhaps she'd taken herself off to the clinic when she found out she was pregnant, but was harrassed at the gates by moronic pro-lifers who think they know better than everyone, and think they have a God-given right to preach to all and sundry, and she couldn't take the pressure they put on her, and didn't get an abortion.
And that lead her to ruin two lives instead of making the right choice for her.

I'll admit, chances are it didn't happen that way, but it gives you something to think about, doesn't it? Are the pro-lifers picketing outside clinics willing to pay all medical costs, sign the adoption papers and take the unwanted child into their homes themselves? If not, I don't feel they have any right to try and force their opinion on anybody else. They're not going to shoulder anybody else's burden, so they shouldn't ask anybody to shoulder a burden that isn't even theirs (and by that, I mean they shouldn't ask anybody to change their minds about getting an abortion, ask anybody to take on beliefs that aren't truly theirs - ie try to convince somebody who doesn't already believe it, that abortion is murder or that embryos are babies - or make a person feel guilty for their choices).

i didn't say that all women who don't want their child is a heartless witch. i said that its heartless to know that something that's -literally- a part of you, that hundreds of people would kill to have, and just Huck it in the dumpster like its nothing. i feel the same with abortions

and so its completely moral and understandable that a girl threw her baby in the dumpster knowing that it'd die, just because shes scared. THATS the most primest thing I've ever heard.

and the girls who do it are brilliant. i mean come on, even if the baby died someone would find it in the dumpster eventually, they'd do DNA test, find the parents and they'd be sent to jail for how long.

and don't talk to me like I'm 5! just because you gave birth doesn't mean you have anymore right to talk to me like I'm a pile of crap. i may be a know-it-all but you're just flat out rude. and birth being horrific, try having having a doctor cut open your stomach, while you're awake with LITTLE pain killer. me, my mom, and my grandma all went through this, and my mom and grandma both agree that its THREE TIMES more painful than birth will ever be.

wow that made me laugh my a' off! if its ridiculous that a '15 year old know-it-all' is against abortion then a 21 year old know-it-all is just as ridiculous saying her opinion is right. go up to protester and say everything you are to me and i guarantee they'll shove their 'abortion is wrong' sign up your a'. and I'd would say to a woman ' i don't agree with what you're doing' but they'll do it anyway! they don't care, they just want it gone! these people are a waste of my time! I'm allowed to express my opinion on the matter, but I'm not gonna waste my time on them.

and NO i don't have 'lots of hearts-and-flowers theories taken from books and TV shows'. you know what i see when i think of birth and raising a kid? i see blood, sweat, tears, but its because the women is fighting for her child.i KNOW how hard birth and caring for a child is, I've watched plenty of REAL people go through it. and all of them agree that its hard, but they love their child and are happy to do it.

Im still hate the idea of being "God" though. Not in a religious way, but I mean, who are we to decide when a life should start an end, why is that up to us? I personally dont think it should be, I think we should let nature take its course. But thats just me.

LoversHeartDisease:

I personally care more about things that are alive then not alive.

okay... warning... i just read that little part and had to stop to comment on it... i didn't read any further... i just saw this and decided that there was no way that i could pass this up... also... i'm officially on the NSU debate team now... just throwing that out there... i've had a really random/ADD day...

okay, enought of that... obviously, LHD, you contradict yourself... you say that you don't care about things that were never alive, but then with that statement you seem to say that you do care about the babies that are being aborted, because they were alive, and then are murdered and then therefore are not alive...

unless that was just a typo, in which case i have this argument... everything happens for a reason, and perhaps your subconscious was just steering you to the direction which you know is truly right... seriously, i don't understand how people can be pro-murder... it's just WRONG... anyway... that's just me...

Girl next door:

[
i didn't say that all women who don't want their child is a heartless witch. i said that its heartless to know that something that's -literally- a part of you, that hundreds of people would kill to have, and just Huck it in the dumpster like its nothing. i feel the same with abortions

and so its completely moral and understandable that a girl threw her baby in the dumpster knowing that it'd die, just because shes scared. THATS the most primest thing I've ever heard.

and the girls who do it are brilliant. i mean come on, even if the baby died someone would find it in the dumpster eventually, they'd do DNA test, find the parents and they'd be sent to jail for how long.

and don't talk to me like I'm 5! just because you gave birth doesn't mean you have anymore right to talk to me like I'm a pile of crap. i may be a know-it-all but you're just flat out rude. and birth being horrific, try having having a doctor cut open your stomach, while you're awake with LITTLE pain killer. me, my mom, and my grandma all went through this, and my mom and grandma both agree that its THREE TIMES more painful than birth will ever be.

wow that made me laugh my a' off! if its ridiculous that a '15 year old know-it-all' is against abortion then a 21 year old know-it-all is just as ridiculous saying her opinion is right. go up to protester and say everything you are to me and i guarantee they'll shove their 'abortion is wrong' sign up your a'. and I'd would say to a woman ' i don't agree with what you're doing' but they'll do it anyway! they don't care, they just want it gone! these people are a waste of my time! I'm allowed to express my opinion on the matter, but I'm not gonna waste my time on them.

and NO i don't have 'lots of hearts-and-flowers theories taken from books and TV shows'. you know what i see when i think of birth and raising a kid? i see blood, sweat, tears, but its because the women is fighting for her child.i KNOW how hard birth and caring for a child is, I've watched plenty of REAL people go through it. and all of them agree that its hard, but they love their child and are happy to do it.

I think you may be missing her point...and what does the story about getting your stomach sliced open have to do with her giving birth? the fact that they're both painful? I don't know from first-hand experience but I'm pretty sure that childbirth is more emotional. You've seen plenty of people go through raising a child huh? She's actually done it. I get the feeling she has more FIRST-HAND insight on it than you or me. It seems like you were jsut digging for excuses to counter her point. When you have a baby at the age of 12, 13, 14, or 15 without knowing a g--damn thing about raising one and are scared out of your mind, then come back and complain about "heartless witches" who don't know what else to do.

Furthermore, she never said these women were brilliant. On the contrary she was explaining that they were not in the right state of mind and that it may explain why they left them. You did say, and I quote, "...only a heartless witch would do that to their own child." never gave further explanation. You left it at that. Said nothing about "...its heartless to know that something that's -literally- a part of you, that hundreds of people would kill to have, and just Huck it in the dumpster like its nothing."

okay... everybody just calm down a little bit... not too much, then things would just get boring... but just a little bit.

now, here's my humble, but thoroughly researched opinion:

it's been scientifically proven that 98% of women who've had abortions say that it's their biggest regret. with that type of psychological ramifications in mind, i wouldn't advise that it's the wisest option... keep in mind that that's just for the mother...

some people say that children that are adopted can't live stable lives and suffer severe social reprocussions because of the social stigma of being "unwanted." speaking from personal experience... i can say that though that is true to a certain extent, i am much more grateful to be alive than to think that i wouldn't be here thinking anything at all... once the adopted person gets that into perspective, everything else seems miniscule in comparison...

LoversHeartDisease, and a few others, commented on how the actual process of birth is painful, expensive, and emotionally damaging. whilst that may be true, most women just look at the fact that they actually have to give birth to a living, screaming, kicking, squealing, precious human being and give it away. some do consider the financial aspects of adoption considerably daunting, but depending on the adoption agency of choice and the particular choice of birth parents, financial situations can be taken care of by making careful arrangements... and while the process of giving birth is not a pleasant one by far, the process of an abortion can have just as severe, and in most cases devastational consqueces both physically and emotionally... there is a surprising number of women who actually end up sterilized from botched abortions...

i could probably list a whole bunch of other random but completely relavent crap... wow, that's kind of a contradiction in terms, but if you've made it this far through my banter, you deserve a break...

genresR4losers:

LoversHeartDisease:

I personally care more about things that are alive then not alive.

okay... warning... i just read that little part and had to stop to comment on it... i didn't read any further... i just saw this and decided that there was no way that i could pass this up... also... i'm officially on the NSU debate team now... just throwing that out there... i've had a really random/ADD day...

okay, enought of that... obviously, LHD, you contradict yourself... you say that you don't care about things that were never alive, but then with that statement you seem to say that you do care about the babies that are being aborted, because they were alive, and then are murdered and then therefore are not alive...

unless that was just a typo, in which case i have this argument... everything happens for a reason, and perhaps your subconscious was just steering you to the direction which you know is truly right... seriously, i don't understand how people can be pro-murder... it's just WRONG... anyway... that's just me...

It's not pro-murder. Murder implies that you are killing an actual person. A fetus is not a person, no matter how many ways you try to spin it. The truth is that a fetus is a clump of cells incapable (for the first few months anyway) living out of the womb. It depends on its host's body for nutrients. .

It's called pro-choice. Does that mean I condone getting an abortion? In some situations, no. In others, it MIGHT be acceptable. I know that there are other options. However, those options can vary based on situation...money, emotion, etc.Still, other options, like adoption, aren't as perfect as some make them out to be.

But as it has already been said before about a thousand times, the decision is not up to me, nor you, nor anyone else. The decision is up to the indivdual who has to decide what they believe is best.

Lady Deathstrike, the thing about my stomach being sliced open is that there are more painful things than birth, the people who went through what i did would agree. and emotional, i was crying and screaming and i actually asked the doctor to kill me, and the whole time my mom was holding my hand crying with me. that is emotional, and frighting. with birth you know that you're child will be with you, with me i thought for sure i was gonna die.

and truthfully, i think i can talk about 'heartless witches' because I've babysat my cousins, i know how hard they are (I'm so close with one of my baby cousins i actually forget that hes not mine), and i want a baby. i don't care, i want one.

and I've never gone through birth, but i have seen it, FIRST HAND. i know what happens, so stop treating me like i know nothing.

oh God, why are you people defending girls who do the 'prom night dumpster baby'! its sick and you know it! you're letting them off because they're scared and 'don't know what else to do'. how about you look at the big picture and realize exactly what these girls did. they might not have been in the right state of mind, but its still sick.

and you want to know WHY I'm 'digging for excuses to counter her point' is because shes treating a baby like its nothing, when she has one right now.

when i said the girls were brilliant, i was being sarcastic, i case you cant tell the difference. and excuse me for not explain further, i running back in forth with helping my mom and typing, so forgive me if i forget to explain.

the whole thing about my post was she was acting rude to me for stating my opinion (against the rules, and i broke it too, i know) so i did the same. yea it may seem childish, but hey I'm just a '15 year old know-it-all'.

so how about you DROP IT and we can stop spamming this thread

^ okay... i'm just going to take this by paragraph...

um... it IS pro-murder because it's not just a cluster of cells, it's a very small, developing person... most of the time when fetuses are aborted they have bones, skin, eyes, hair and a functional brain... and in quite a few cases some are actually capapble of suviving outside of the womb, but are just killed anyway... and for that matter, a newborn can't survive on it's own outside of the womb, it must be nurtured, and taken care of, so why is it illegal to kill a baby if it comes out of the womb on it's own and is legal if forcibly taken? and... it doesn't depend on it's "host" for nutrients, it depends on it's mother for nutrients... it's not a parasite, so it doesn't have a host... if you want to learn about parasites, read PEEPS by Scott Westerfeld...

things can be called different things... you could call me a turtle if it suited your fancy, but that doesn't make me a turtle... just because i say that it's pro-murder, doens't mean it's pro-murder... just keept that in mind... if you want to call it pro-choice because that makes you feel better, go right ahead... i'm still not a turtle... in my opinion, abortion in NEVER acceptable... i won't go into it again here, but my earlier posts'll give you the kind of figues that would prove that it is RARELY if at all necessary... and other options, such as adoption, are ALWAYS better if you're not taking a human life...

i agree, it's not my decision... it's not anyone's decision...that's what i've been trying to say... who has that right to take that life away... does a mother have the right to kill her child oustide of the womb? no. so, why is it any different when the child is inside the womb? it's like saying you can shoot someone while they are outside, but not inside a building... it just doesn't make sense, to me anyway...

ayn_inverse:

It's not pro-murder. Murder implies that you are killing an actual person. A fetus is not a person, no matter how many ways you try to spin it. The truth is that a fetus is a clump of cells incapable (for the first few months anyway) living out of the womb. It depends on its host's body for nutrients. .

It's called pro-choice. Does that mean I condone getting an abortion? In some situations, no. In others, it MIGHT be acceptable. I know that there are other options. However, those options can vary based on situation...money, emotion, etc.Still, other options, like adoption, aren't as perfect as some make them out to be.

But as it has already been said before about a thousand times, the decision is not up to me, nor you, nor anyone else. The decision is up to the indivdual who has to decide what they believe is best.

first just to get this outta the way, a fetus is considered a person, its illegal to abort a fetus because its to far into development, and really is murder. a embryo is what we're actually talking about. and a baby isnt capable of living outside the womb till the 8-9 months, due to premature, so in-till then they do, but around the 4Th or 5Th month its a fetus and is technically a baby.

I'm against abortion, but in a few cases i let it slide. if the woman cant financially, emotionally or physically handle a baby i understand, along with rape or incest. i just don't think its reasonable that a woman doesn't want to take care of it or it'll be mentally handicapped. i feel really strong about the mentally handicapped, if you can support one, you should have it. adoption is hard, but while you're pregnant you can find a infertile couple who want to raise the child from birth, and I've heard that it makes both you and the couple happy.

and I've have explained that its not up to me, its the mothers, but i wish that women would actually look into what they're getting themselves into.

BRAVO!!! ENCORE!!! TOUCHE!!! and HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! you just can't argue with scientifically proven facts... sorry, i'm really tired and not coherent so i'm slowly losing my mind... i think i should prbably go to bed... i knowt that that probably sounded really childish... oh well... and if you created the child, you should take responsibility for it... you know how it's made if you made it... so therefore you knew what you were getting yourself into. now, whether that would mean raising it yourself, or giving it up, killing a child does not qualify as taking care of it... no matter who you are... and even if the child has special needs, there are plenty of couples out there who are actually LOOKING for special needs children...