Abortions.

Okay im sorry for swearing but no itz not their fault they got raped... but is it the babies fault they were concieved??? your contradicting yourself. Yes it is like walking around murdering people, your doing the exact same thing minus a gun....

padres24:

Okay im sorry for swearing but no itz not their fault they got raped... but is it the babies fault they were concieved??? your contradicting yourself. Yes it is like walking around murdering people, your doing the exact same thing minus a gun....

It's not the same thing as killing somebody with a real LIFE. A fetus doesn't have a memory, people counting on it, and it cannot live on it's own. I am also not contradicting myself, as I do not believe abortion is murder, or killing a baby.

Whether they have people depending on them or not they are people..... and newborn babies out of the womb cant live on their own so does that mean we kill them... uhhhh no!!!!! its murder plain and simple check out the pics on www.priestsforlife.org maybe you wil have a change of heart.

I'm sorry, but I bet that's religious propaganda. Actually, I know it is. Provide an unbiased source if you want me to look.
Also, that's not what I said. A human, a real human, can live on it's own. I am not saying, "Go out and have an abortion because you can!" It's a perfectly fine way to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy when you need to. Women have jobs they need to do to provide for themselves, and missing work for months (or even getting fired) just isn't fair to give up a baby for adoption. It doesn't make much sense to do so when you want an abortion, can get one, but the government outlaws it. If you choose to give birth, that's your choice, and I am fine with that. I am also fine with a woman getting an abortion. I am not here to judge what women want to do with their body.

Girl next door:

Lady Deathstrike, the thing about my stomach being sliced open is that there are more painful things than birth, the people who went through what i did would agree. and emotional, i was crying and screaming and i actually asked the doctor to kill me, and the whole time my mom was holding my hand crying with me. that is emotional, and frighting. with birth you know that you're child will be with you, with me i thought for sure i was gonna die.

I'm pretty sure there were a few times during my labour where I tried strangling myself with the tube hooked to my drip. Yeah, I wanted to freaking die too, and I almost got my wish. About ten minutes after my daughter was born, I hemorrhaged so severely that I almost bled to death in the space of about five minutes - the average human being has about 5 litres of blood coursing through their veins, and in less than five minutes, I lost over 3 litres. So don't crap on at me about how it was painful and you wanted to die - I bet it wasn't anywhere near as bad as an induced labour (which means the contractions are supposedly far more intense than a natural labour, because they're drug-induced) and then bleeding half to death in front of your husand and mother. and, for that matter, I didn't 'know that my child would be with me' at all - what if the cord had been wrapped around her neck and slowly strangling her? What if she became so distressed from the labour that her heart had stopped beating? Nothing is a sure thing, and even now, I have no guarantee that my daughter will grow up, marry and have kids of her own - she could die of SIDS. She could get hit by a car. She could die of chickenpox. I just don't know. And there were a few hideous moments of lucidity while I was hemorrhaging that I thought, "Well, if I die right now, at least I know she's healthy and she's got people who love her and will look after her," and made my peace with whoever. That's something I couldn't have said to myself if I'd chosen to give her up for adoption. I would rather have aborted her if she was unwanted or I was incapable of caring for her, than spend the rest of my days chewing my fingernails down to the quick, worrying and wondering whether she was okay.
While I think of it, I'm calling you out - I've never, NEVER heard of an abortion being performed by 'slicing your stomach open'. Never. A drug is administered to dilate the cervix, and the doctor uses various tools to scrape and vacuum out the contents of the uterus. So, unless you had a late-term abortion (which I totally disagree with, for what it's worth), you're a liar. Either that, or you live in some third-world country where abortions are performed like C-sections. Could it be that you're claiming you went through abortion when you didn't, solely to try and convince others that you have the hecessary first-hand knowledge to 'prove' how right you are? Like I said, I've never heard of it being done in first-world countries. If I'm wrong, forgive me, it just sounds pretty suspicious. That and the fact that all these women in your family have supposedly gone through it as well... I don't know, something just doesn't ring quite true.

Girl next door:

and I've never gone through birth, but i have seen it, FIRST HAND. i know what happens, so stop treating me like i know nothing.

Again, seeing is not feeling, living, being. My husband and mother, who watched me give birth, will never know what it felt like, no matter how hard I try to explain it to them, and despite the fact that they stood there holding my hand, mopping the sweat from my forehead, and gritting their teeth with me every time I bore down. (And just in case you were wondering, my mother doesn't know what labour feels like because she had C-sections under general anaesthetic with both my brother and I, so she's never felt a contraction.) Stop harping on about how you're so experienced, when you haven't been there yourself. I watched videos of women in labour for months before I gave birth, and trust me - it looked like a nice, quiet Sunday drive compared to the actual experience.

Girl next door:

oh God, why are you people defending girls who do the 'prom night dumpster baby'! its sick and you know it! you're letting them off because they're scared and 'don't know what else to do'. they might not have been in the right state of mind, but its still sick.

I'm not defending these girls - what they do is wrong and should never have happened in the first place. My point being, if they had gotten an abortion in the first place, they wouldn't be dumping babies in trashcans or toilet bowls. Use your head - nobody is saying the choices these people made are the right ones: we're saying abortions need to remain legal, safe and available for those who need them. People like these girls, who see no other option. Wake up and get the point we're trying to make.

Girl next door:

and you want to know WHY I'm 'digging for excuses to counter her point' is because shes treating a baby like its nothing, when she has one right now.

My daughter is my whole world, so don't you dare have the audacity to accuse me of feeling otherwise (by implication or by outright statement - either way). Fact is, she was not only very much wanted and loved from the moment I found out I was pregnant, but my husband and I were trying for a baby - she was no accident.
Besides that, a baby is not 'nothing', and by no means would I ever treat a baby as such. An EMBRYO, however, is the organism in question, and an embryo, to me, having no religious beliefs clouding my common-sense, IS nothing. It could one day grow to become something, but to me, the mother has every right to decide she cannot allow it to get that far, and terminate her pregnancy. That is her business, her choice, and her consequences to deal with.

Girl next door:

the whole thing about my post was she was acting rude to me for stating my opinion (against the rules, and i broke it too, i know) so i did the same. yea it may seem childish, but hey I'm just a '15 year old know-it-all'.

Question: did I specify you personally as the sole narrow-minded poster on this thread? Answer: No. I was speaking generally, using your quotes as an example (and they're pretty much identical to all the other pro-lifers' comments), to point out that a lot of the members of this board, however opinionated they like to think themselves, really have no evidence or first-hand experience to back up their convictions. Question: Did I personally attack you, insult you directly or otherwise break the rules of this board? Answer: No, I did not. If I appeared rude, then I apologise - I find that when debates about such hot topics as religion, abortion, racism etc come up, one has to be totally blunt in order to get the point across. And, for what it's worth, I haven't attacked you personally - I've just pointed out that you and many others who have posted might find it worthy of your time to ignore the religious propaganda and the scare-mongerers, and actually educate yourselves on real statistics before villainising all the free-thinking, sexually active women in the world.

Cigarettes And Suicide:

While I think of it, I'm calling you out - I've never, NEVER heard of an abortion being performed by 'slicing your stomach open'. Never. A drug is administered to dilate the cervix, and the doctor uses various tools to scrape and vacuum out the contents of the uterus. So, unless you had a late-term abortion (which I totally disagree with, for what it's worth), you're a liar. Either that, or you live in some third-world country where abortions are performed like C-sections. Could it be that you're claiming you went through abortion when you didn't, solely to try and convince others that you have the hecessary first-hand knowledge to 'prove' how right you are? Like I said, I've never heard of it being done in first-world countries. If I'm wrong, forgive me, it just sounds pretty suspicious. That and the fact that all these women in your family have supposedly gone through it as well... I don't know, something just doesn't ring quite true.

everything else I'm not gonna argue with, just because I'm tired of repeating myself.

i am NOT against abortion due to religion. I'm against because i just don't agree with it. I've done research, i know how its done, i know the reasons women get it, but it still don't agree. now lets leave it at that.

and with my stomach being sliced open. abortions are not done like that, because that was NOT a abortion. i never said it was, but i guess i forgot to say it wasnt. I'm NOT a liar, i didn't have a abortion and i didn't say i had one. you're getting me confused with NotOkay22. she had one, i DIDN'T.
I've never been pregnant, because I'm a virgin. i have a disease that caused me to have that happen. i said it because its extremely painful and the people who've had it done have said that its '3 times more painful then birth', which me and my mom found hard to believe, till we had to have it done. the whole point its in there is because that there are more painful things than birth (and to explain more, my state was very minor, most people have it worse when it comes to the disease, i just took care of it sooner)

and to say it again: lets drop it and let people say their opinions, and stop the hostile comments to each other.

at the rate we're going I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet

^Forgive me for misunderstanding you, but as you yourself acknowledge, you never pointed out that it wasn't an abortion, so you'd have to understand that a lot of us (I'm sure I'm not the only one) would simply assume that you meant you HAD had an abortion when you describe a horrific operation in which your stomach was sliced open, in the abortion thread. After all, that's what we're debating here. Like, if there was a thread on gastric bypass and you described a similar operation without being specific, a lot of us would assume you'd had a gastric bypass.
So I apologise for that.

Now, religion and all other things aside, yes, you're entitled to believe whatever you want, whether it be regarding abortion, capital punishment, drug abuse, or even down to the clothes you wear. That's your right, just as it's my right to also choose how I feel about the way I live my life.
However, that being said, while I (reluctantly) accept your opinion on the matter, I'm simply arguing the fact that abortions should remain legal for those who choose to not feel the same way you do. If you don't agree with abortion, your decision is simple - don't have one. However, by arguing that you don't agree with abortion, you're essentially saying that it should be outlawed, which to me is highly unfair because just as there are thousands of people who agree with you, there are thousands more who don't agree, and those people should have the right to choose for themselves.
I'm not trying to argue you into submission or make you change your beliefs - I'm just saying look at it from that perspective: by saying you don't agree, you're saying it should be illegal, and that's not right. Everyone should have the right to make their own choices, and for that to happen, the option (abortion, duh) needs to remain available for the women who make choices that differ from your own.

i realize that i wasn't clear, but you also need to realize that I'm literally running back and forth from my computer. my family wants me to spend more time with them, I'm looking up stuff, I'm talking to my boyfriend while I'm on the computer, and to put the cherry on the cake, i feel extremely strong about this. just reading this makes me want to throw my computer out the window.

ahhh and here we lie into the hardest part of the this topic.

first off, because i don't agree with abortions doesn't mean i want it to be fully illegal. my emotions and beliefs on this topic go up and down. one day I'll believe that women aren't thinking clear or acting ignorant and abortions should be illegal, and the next i believe it should be limited, with exact proof (medical records, finical proof, or police records), to women with emotional, physical, or finical problems or they were raped. i know that my opinions on this aren't fair, but as i said before its like a contract. when you choose to have sex you're except the fact that there's a huge chance you'll get pregnant even with protection. with abortions i feel that women who don't have a reason other then 'its hard', they just didn't read the fine print. we all need to face it, abortion NEEDS to be legal, but women really DO abuse it and treat it like birth control which i think isnt right

my opinion.

to anyone who says abortion is murder: that is ridiculous. the fetus in question does not feel pain. and it's a completely different thing than someone running around with a gun shooting people.
this is a girl in need, not a crazy woman.

and really, I hope none of you ever get put into a desperate situation.

would you want this child to be born to parents that do not want them?
that cannot financially support them?
that are abusive?

an abortion isn't just someone who doesn't want to be pregnant and just wants to go have more sex, they are getting this baby aborted for some reason.

and stop calling people names.
just because you can't find any other way to validate your opinion doesn't mean you have to use obscenities and call names.

people need to stop being ignorant and realize that there are reasons there.
think about all the things that this child will have to go through.
especially since they can't even feel pain when they are aborted.

and I think the pro-life posters with 2 year olds on them are just ridiculous.
that's a complete lie.
it's a month old fetus, not a toddler.
it can't think for itself, it cannot say what it needs because it doesn't even know.

I recently came to find myself changing my opinion on abortion. I must say that I am all for just going natural. What I mean by that, is I don't choose my baby. If it comes it comes, if its retarded its retarded. If the baby will only live for 5 minutes after birth then so be it, I will cherish those minutes. I must say that If I was going to die giving birth then I die proudly. I have basically changed my opinion to the following: I am against playing God(not in the religious way). I don't think that I have the right to choose between life and death. That's not my place. At least to me I don't see it as my place. So again, I'm against people destroying life no matter what stage. I think its wrong for people to even have that power. Now I'm not talking like "I cant use medicine because it goes against whatever", I'm talking about life and death...I don't want the ability to choose, though its out there, and I don't support it.

Okay for those of you who say the baby does not feel any pain i would like to see proof! I have not come across any info that gives the slightest idea the child in the womb does not feel pain.

How can it feel pain?

If it's brain is not fully developed, which it wouldn't be, then it won't be able to feel pain.

I don't understand how you can just dismiss the biology of it...

Shouldn't biology be enough proof for you?

padres24:

Okay for those of you who say the baby does not feel any pain i would like to see proof! I have not come across any info that gives the slightest idea the child in the womb does not feel pain.

No one is actually talking about a baby.
An abortion is terminating further development of an embryo.
And in that case, the organism has not - as PlushToy stated - developed their brain, much lesser 'emotions.'
It's like saying 'how do you know they won't remember being in the womb?'
It's just impossible. And has been scientifically proven.

^That picture, although horrifying, does not actually prove your point...

You were saying that the embryo/foetus feels pain, but that's actually incorrect.

That picture proves nothing to me, sorry.

Guys...i dint think it's very fair to immediately scream 'MURDERER' at the mother.
Shouldn't everyone get a second chance?
having a baby can ruin your life. And it's not like it's all the mothers fault. Even if she took the pill. It's easy to forget and condoms break all the time without the people even noticing.

I work in a hospital and i see people coming in during labor and they look as if their about to die. Their bleeding and screaming and These are 25 year old married woman, i cant imagine what it would do to a 15 year old.

padres24:

Okay for those of you who say the baby does not feel any pain i would like to see proof! I have not come across any info that gives the slightest idea the child in the womb does not feel pain.

I'd like to see some proof that says that it DOES.

i think it is wrong to kill something so helpless.