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UndyingSoul. Really Not Okay Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 722	July 30th, 2007 at 09:59pm Its like this: When you were young your parents would make rules for you, like dont touch a hot stove, look both ways before crossing the street, dont fight with your siblings, etc. Why did they make those rules? Because they love you and want you to be safe and happy. Now if you dont follow a rule then you get punished. God set down rules for mankind. He said follow my rules(ten commandments). God knows that sometimes its hard to follow all of his rules so he sent down his son to die so that we were forgiven for our mistakes. God set down his rules for the same reason that our parents did. He wants us to be safe and happy. But if we refuse to obey his rules and ignore his forgiveness god says that we need punishment. Hell. Now you dont have to have the punishment, its your choice whether you follow the rules or not. You choose. Thats just how I see it.
Fezzik Salute You in Your Grave Age: 31 Gender: Female Posts: 2748	July 30th, 2007 at 10:16pm NotOkay22: [That may be how your priest does it, but at the catholic masses that Ive been to, every week it was practically the same thing. Yea they read some different verses, but the priests opinion was very...i don't know how to put it...like whatever the people in the congregation told him to think, he thought. He must have been just very poor at his job, but then I visited a different churches mass and it was basically the exact same thing. That's just variation in people, it hasn't really got anything to do with Catholicism. I mean, there's a priest at my church who goes on and on just to make one point, a priest who can capture your attention quite well but doesn't say anything very poignant, there's a priest who says what he means to say and is concise about it - you get that in any denomination and any religion. I don't quite understand what you mean about the priest saying whatever the people in the congregation told him to think - and I suppose a lot of homilies do sound alike, but that's because the priest is always preaching the same basic thing: love.
KillJoys Bulletproof Heart Age: - Gender: - Posts: 25453	July 30th, 2007 at 11:33pm druscilla; ryry: I don't. If God were all loving he wouldn't have ordered thousands of people sent to the slaughter. He send them to hell. He would love them unconditionally. He doesn't. God didn't. He gave humans free will. We created evil NOT God. We created war and suffering. God doesn't send any one to hell, not if they repent and are truly sorry.
eepshyes Shotgun Sinner Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 7323	July 31st, 2007 at 12:28am PrettyHandsomeAkward: druscilla; ryry: I don't. If God were all loving he wouldn't have ordered thousands of people sent to the slaughter. He send them to hell. He would love them unconditionally. He doesn't. God didn't. He gave humans free will. We created evil NOT God. We created war and suffering. God doesn't send any one to hell, not if they repent and are truly sorry. There is no hell. How can you believe that a god that is so loving could torture someone in hell? He wouldn't. And yes, we created evil. It's our own fault, people just want someone else to blame.
UndyingSoul. Really Not Okay Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 722	July 31st, 2007 at 01:06am Audrey Hepburn.: PrettyHandsomeAkward: druscilla; ryry: I don't. If God were all loving he wouldn't have ordered thousands of people sent to the slaughter. He send them to hell. He would love them unconditionally. He doesn't. God didn't. He gave humans free will. We created evil NOT God. We created war and suffering. God doesn't send any one to hell, not if they repent and are truly sorry. There is no hell. How can you believe that a god that is so loving could torture someone in hell? He wouldn't. And yes, we created evil. It's our own fault, people just want someone else to blame. God doesnt torture people in Hell...devil, Satan, Lucifer...whatever you want to call him...he's the one that does the torturing. God doesnt want us to go to Hell. We choose ourselves to go there.
UndyingSoul. Really Not Okay Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 722	July 31st, 2007 at 01:12am Fezzik: NotOkay22: [That may be how your priest does it, but at the catholic masses that Ive been to, every week it was practically the same thing. Yea they read some different verses, but the priests opinion was very...i don't know how to put it...like whatever the people in the congregation told him to think, he thought. He must have been just very poor at his job, but then I visited a different churches mass and it was basically the exact same thing. That's just variation in people, it hasn't really got anything to do with Catholicism. I mean, there's a priest at my church who goes on and on just to make one point, a priest who can capture your attention quite well but doesn't say anything very poignant, there's a priest who says what he means to say and is concise about it - you get that in any denomination and any religion. I don't quite understand what you mean about the priest saying whatever the people in the congregation told him to think - and I suppose a lot of homilies do sound alike, but that's because the priest is always preaching the same basic thing: love. Well it was this one priest and he didn't really have his own opinion. It was just whatever he preached was very safe. He refrained from speaking any truth. He just said that everything is all love and that was it. You cant just teach about love, that's not all there is to it. You want to make a difference you also much teach the painful things...the truth. The priest would never talk about Hell or the Jesus's death or anything that wasn't flowers and daisies. You should teach about love but you cant just make everyone think that the world will be all love to them and wont chew them up and spit them out like everyone else. And after that's already happened to you how can you relate to anything that he was saying. I'm not saying all churches are like that, its just this one guy and it bugged the heck outta me.
KillJoys Bulletproof Heart Age: - Gender: - Posts: 25453	July 31st, 2007 at 01:42am I really doubt there is a hell. To me if you don't get into heaven then that is your punishment. What is worse than not being at peace through out your eternal life and not being with your loved ones. As for the devil or Lucifer the ‘fallen angel’ I just think he was the first one to be cast out of heaven. The first one to feel what it is like not to be there. I personally don't believe there is such a place as 'hell' or purgatory for that matter. I mean when you die you 'leave' your physical body. You're just a soul. Therefore you can't feel pain because that is a reflex of the body so I don't see how you can be tortured in a physical manner and we don't even know if the soul can feel emotion so I don't see how any form of tortured can happen. From what I've studied of the gospels Jesus actually talks very little of hell. And I believe the 'devil' is just a metaphor of human temptation and evil in the world. Jesus explained many things in parables and this could be one of them. However the devil is mentioned more in the Old Testament but God is more vengeful in the Old Testament. I just think people use ‘hell’ to scare one another into doing the right thing, when we shouldn't need this in the first. We should do the right thing out of our own accord not because we are worried about going to hell. But this is just what I believe.
UndyingSoul. Really Not Okay Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 722	July 31st, 2007 at 01:51am PrettyHandsomeAkward: I really doubt there is a hell. To me if you don't get into heaven then that is your punishment. What is worse than not being at peace through out your eternal life and not being with your loved ones. As for the devil or Lucifer the ‘fallen angel’ I just think he was the first one to be cast out of heaven. The first one to feel what it is like not to be there. I personally don't believe there is such a place as 'hell' or purgatory for that matter. I mean when you die you 'leave' your physical body. You're just a soul. Therefore you can't feel pain because that is a reflex of the body so I don't see how you can be tortured in a physical manner and we don't even know if the soul can feel emotion so I don't see how any form of tortured can happen. From what I've studied of the gospels Jesus actually talks very little of hell. And I believe the 'devil' is just a metaphor of human temptation and evil in the world. Jesus explained many things in parables and this could be one of them. However the devil is mentioned more in the Old Testament but God is more vengeful in the Old Testament. I just think people use ‘hell’ to scare one another into doing the right thing, when we shouldn't need this in the first. We should do the right thing out of our own accord not because we are worried about going to hell. But this is just what I believe. That's a good point, but what about the people who don't do the right thing at all. Yes not getting into heaven is bad, but God says that the punishment for sin is death. So how could we feel death if we were already dead. Hell. And if when we are souls and we have no emotions then going to Heaven would mean nothing because we wouldn't be able to be happy and joyful there.
KillJoys Bulletproof Heart Age: - Gender: - Posts: 25453	July 31st, 2007 at 02:29am Well we don't know what you think or feel as a soul. I doubt it will be anything like human sense no one knows. Jesus had to explain it to us in simple terms. The people back in Jesus' time had very little education and maybe the only way he could explain it to them was through basic human emotion saying heaven is like constantly being happy. But that is just an emotion, we don't know if the soul could even feel that. No one honestly knows what heaven is like or what it is like to be there. We just make the assumption that we will be happy, because that is the emotion we enjoy the best as humans. I'm not saying you wouldn’t feel like that I'm just saying we don’t know what characteristics a soul has, what it is capable of. But I don't see what could be a greater punishment than not getting into heaven.
Fezzik Salute You in Your Grave Age: 31 Gender: Female Posts: 2748	July 31st, 2007 at 02:30am NotOkay22: Well it was this one priest and he didn't really have his own opinion. It was just whatever he preached was very safe. He refrained from speaking any truth. He just said that everything is all love and that was it. You cant just teach about love, that's not all there is to it. You want to make a difference you also much teach the painful things...the truth. The priest would never talk about Hell or the Jesus's death or anything that wasn't flowers and daisies. You should teach about love but you cant just make everyone think that the world will be all love to them and wont chew them up and spit them out like everyone else. And after that's already happened to you how can you relate to anything that he was saying. I'm not saying all churches are like that, its just this one guy and it bugged the heck outta me. But you've said it yourself on here; God is all about the love. And love, and all the things tied to it - hope, forgiveness, kindness - can see you through all the painful things of life. Not preaching about bad things and evil doesn't necessarily mean painting the world as a happy, daisies-and-unicorns sort of place, it just means showing that there is good in everyday things, and that people should do their best to find and give love no matter what the situation. Actually I really don't like the idea of preaching about Hell and things of that sort. I think it's an "you attract more bees with honey than with vinegar" (or whatever the expression is) situation - more people will want to be close to God and follow His word if they hear about the good things that involves rather than hearing about the bad things involved in not following His word (if that makes sense). PrettyHandsomeAkward: I personally don't believe there is such a place as 'hell' or purgatory for that matter. I mean when you die you 'leave' your physical body. You're just a soul. Therefore you can't feel pain because that is a reflex of the body so I don't see how you can be tortured in a physical manner and we don't even know if the soul can feel emotion so I don't see how any form of tortured can happen. That actually raises an interesting point, because if there is a Hell, and if we can assume that our soul has emotions etcetera (which I think it definitely does, I think emotions, feelings, thoughts, and consciousness are what defines a soul), then that must mean that any sort of torture in Hell would be mental rather than, you now, the traditional image of swimming laps in a fiery lake with demons whipping you every time you come up for air.
DIE! DIE! DIE! Bleeding on the Floor Age: 31 Gender: Female Posts: 1067	July 31st, 2007 at 02:33am My mother believes that we are reborn on this earth to learn and teach. She says that bad people are just new souls, and they will have to be reborn a whole lot more. She believes that good souls..erm..old souls evedntually make it to heaven because they have paid their dues. I am not sure if I believe this, but it makes a whole lot more sense to me then the wrath of God and all of that cal.
KillJoys Bulletproof Heart Age: - Gender: - Posts: 25453	July 31st, 2007 at 02:38am ^^ I'm not quite sure I understand that. Why would people be born bad? Even if they are new souls. I believe everyone is born good. Its just the way we are brought up and the experiences we go through.
DIE! DIE! DIE! Bleeding on the Floor Age: 31 Gender: Female Posts: 1067	July 31st, 2007 at 02:51am haha, everyone is born with a blank slate, but like, maturity stands. You know for example: two people are abused their whole lives one ends up a rapist and one a charitable millionaire or something. The millionaire was the old soul. It learned and grew from its pain. the new soul is the rapist, that still has more to learn haha, once again, I don't believe this, but thats how she thinks it goes.
KillJoys Bulletproof Heart Age: - Gender: - Posts: 25453	July 31st, 2007 at 04:15am Okay I get what you are saying now. But it doesn't make much sense to me. I think every one is there own individual soul. I personal don't believe in past life or reincarnation as it isn't in my religion. I believe in learning from your mistakes, but I believe we chose the person we become.
Mr.Armstrong Awake and Unafraid Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 12135	July 31st, 2007 at 08:47pm druscilla; ryry: I don't. If God were all loving he wouldn't have ordered thousands of people sent to the slaughter. He send them to hell. He would love them unconditionally. He doesn't. okai i understand what you mean but there was a quote i found please read it and you will understand why god is like that.! WHY God ALLOWS PAIN? THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST EXPLANATIONS OF WHY God ALLOWS PAIN AND SUFFERING THAT I HAVE SEEN A MAN WENT TO A BARBERSHOP TO HAVE HIS HAIR CUT AND HIS BEARD TRIMMED. AS THE BARBER BEGAN TO WORK. THEY BEGAN TO HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION. THEY TALKED ABOUT SO MANY THINGS AND VARIOUS SUBJECTS. WHEN THEY EVENTUALLY TOUCHED ON THE SUBJECT OF GOD. THE BARBER SAID: "I DON'T BELIEVE THAT GOD EXISTS." "WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?" ASKED THE CUSTOMER. "WELL, YOU JUST HAVE TO GO OUT IN THE STREET TO REALIZE THAT GOD DOESN'T EXIST. TELL ME, IF GOD EXISTS, WOULD THERE BE SO MANY SICK PEOPLE? WOULD THERE BE ABANDONED CHILDREN? IF GOD EXISTED, THERE WOULD BE NEITHER SUFFERING NOR PAIN. I CAN'T IMAGINE A LOVING GOD WHO WOULD ALLOW ALL OF THESE THINGS." THE CUSTOMER THOUGHT FOR A MOMENT, BUT DIDN'T RESPOND BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO START AN ARGUMENT. THE BARBER FINISHED HIS JOB AND THE CUSTOMER LEFT THE SHOP. JUST AFTER HE LEFT THE BARBERSHOP, HE SAW A MAN IN THE STREET WITH LONG, STRINGY, DIRTY HAIR AND AN UNTRIMMED BEARD. HE LOOKED DIRTY AND UNKEMPT. THE CUSTOMER TURNED BACK AND ENTERED THE BARBER SHOP AGAIN AND HE SAID TO THE BARBER: "YOU KNOW WHAT? BARBERS DO NOT EXIST." "HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?" ASKED THE SURPRISED BARBER. "I AM HERE, AND I AM A BARBER. AND I JUST WORKED ON YOU!" "NO!" THE CUSTOMER EXCLAIMED. "BARBERS DON'T EXIST BECAUSE IF THEY DID, THERE WOULD BE NO PEOPLE WITH DIRTY LONG HAIR AND UNTRIMMED BEARDS, LIKE THAT MAN OUTSIDE." "AH, BUT BARBERS DO EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT COME TO ME." "EXACTLY!" AFFIRMED THE CUSTOMER. "THAT'S THE POINT! GOD , TOO, DOES EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT GO TO HIM AND DON'T LOOK TO HIM FOR HELP. THAT'S WHY THERE'S SO MUCH PAIN
raventears Killjoy Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 50	August 1st, 2007 at 09:22am im a polythest i belive in multi deites and i belive we suffer so we can learn from the pain the gods and the goddess dont like 2 see us suffer but make it so that way we can learn and grow so we can have compassion and understanding if we didnt have it we would probably be a bunch of jerks
UndyingSoul. Really Not Okay Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 722	August 1st, 2007 at 05:37pm xMyBlackDaliahx: druscilla; ryry: I don't. If God were all loving he wouldn't have ordered thousands of people sent to the slaughter. He send them to hell. He would love them unconditionally. He doesn't. okai i understand what you mean but there was a quote i found please read it and you will understand why god is like that.! WHY God ALLOWS PAIN? THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST EXPLANATIONS OF WHY God ALLOWS PAIN AND SUFFERING THAT I HAVE SEEN A MAN WENT TO A BARBERSHOP TO HAVE HIS HAIR CUT AND HIS BEARD TRIMMED. AS THE BARBER BEGAN TO WORK. THEY BEGAN TO HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION. THEY TALKED ABOUT SO MANY THINGS AND VARIOUS SUBJECTS. WHEN THEY EVENTUALLY TOUCHED ON THE SUBJECT OF GOD. THE BARBER SAID: "I DON'T BELIEVE THAT GOD EXISTS." "WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?" ASKED THE CUSTOMER. "WELL, YOU JUST HAVE TO GO OUT IN THE STREET TO REALIZE THAT GOD DOESN'T EXIST. TELL ME, IF GOD EXISTS, WOULD THERE BE SO MANY SICK PEOPLE? WOULD THERE BE ABANDONED CHILDREN? IF GOD EXISTED, THERE WOULD BE NEITHER SUFFERING NOR PAIN. I CAN'T IMAGINE A LOVING GOD WHO WOULD ALLOW ALL OF THESE THINGS." THE CUSTOMER THOUGHT FOR A MOMENT, BUT DIDN'T RESPOND BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO START AN ARGUMENT. THE BARBER FINISHED HIS JOB AND THE CUSTOMER LEFT THE SHOP. JUST AFTER HE LEFT THE BARBERSHOP, HE SAW A MAN IN THE STREET WITH LONG, STRINGY, DIRTY HAIR AND AN UNTRIMMED BEARD. HE LOOKED DIRTY AND UNKEMPT. THE CUSTOMER TURNED BACK AND ENTERED THE BARBER SHOP AGAIN AND HE SAID TO THE BARBER: "YOU KNOW WHAT? BARBERS DO NOT EXIST." "HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?" ASKED THE SURPRISED BARBER. "I AM HERE, AND I AM A BARBER. AND I JUST WORKED ON YOU!" "NO!" THE CUSTOMER EXCLAIMED. "BARBERS DON'T EXIST BECAUSE IF THEY DID, THERE WOULD BE NO PEOPLE WITH DIRTY LONG HAIR AND UNTRIMMED BEARDS, LIKE THAT MAN OUTSIDE." "AH, BUT BARBERS DO EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT COME TO ME." "EXACTLY!" AFFIRMED THE CUSTOMER. "THAT'S THE POINT! GOD , TOO, DOES EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT GO TO HIM AND DON'T LOOK TO HIM FOR HELP. THAT'S WHY THERE'S SO MUCH PAIN Ive heard of tha before. I like it, and totally agree with it.
UndyingSoul. Really Not Okay Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 722	August 1st, 2007 at 05:42pm Fezzik: NotOkay22: Well it was this one priest and he didn't really have his own opinion. It was just whatever he preached was very safe. He refrained from speaking any truth. He just said that everything is all love and that was it. You cant just teach about love, that's not all there is to it. You want to make a difference you also much teach the painful things...the truth. The priest would never talk about Hell or the Jesus's death or anything that wasn't flowers and daisies. You should teach about love but you cant just make everyone think that the world will be all love to them and wont chew them up and spit them out like everyone else. And after that's already happened to you how can you relate to anything that he was saying. I'm not saying all churches are like that, its just this one guy and it bugged the heck outta me. But you've said it yourself on here; God is all about the love. And love, and all the things tied to it - hope, forgiveness, kindness - can see you through all the painful things of life. Not preaching about bad things and evil doesn't necessarily mean painting the world as a happy, daisies-and-unicorns sort of place, it just means showing that there is good in everyday things, and that people should do their best to find and give love no matter what the situation. Actually I really don't like the idea of preaching about Hell and things of that sort. I think it's an "you attract more bees with honey than with vinegar" (or whatever the expression is) situation - more people will want to be close to God and follow His word if they hear about the good things that involves rather than hearing about the bad things involved in not following His word (if that makes sense). PrettyHandsomeAkward: I personally don't believe there is such a place as 'hell' or purgatory for that matter. I mean when you die you 'leave' your physical body. You're just a soul. Therefore you can't feel pain because that is a reflex of the body so I don't see how you can be tortured in a physical manner and we don't even know if the soul can feel emotion so I don't see how any form of tortured can happen. That actually raises an interesting point, because if there is a Hell, and if we can assume that our soul has emotions etcetera (which I think it definitely does, I think emotions, feelings, thoughts, and consciousness are what defines a soul), then that must mean that any sort of torture in Hell would be mental rather than, you now, the traditional image of swimming laps in a fiery lake with demons whipping you every time you come up for air. Yes but if someone only preaches the good things then how are you going to tell the people the things that they truly need to know if they want a relationship with God. Yes God is all about love, but he is also about truth and honestly. People are sinners, its as simple as that. No matter what good you do you are still a sinner and are still going to Hell if you don't accept God as your savior and ask him to forgive you for your sins. Those are things that if you want to have a true relationship with God you need to acknowledge and understand. People need to be told those things, because all the love God shows all ties back to it.
UndyingSoul. Really Not Okay Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 722	August 1st, 2007 at 05:47pm PrettyHandsomeAkward: Well we don't know what you think or feel as a soul. I doubt it will be anything like human sense no one knows. Jesus had to explain it to us in simple terms. The people back in Jesus' time had very little education and maybe the only way he could explain it to them was through basic human emotion saying heaven is like constantly being happy. But that is just an emotion, we don't know if the soul could even feel that. No one honestly knows what heaven is like or what it is like to be there. We just make the assumption that we will be happy, because that is the emotion we enjoy the best as humans. I'm not saying you wouldn’t feel like that I'm just saying we don’t know what characteristics a soul has, what it is capable of. But I don't see what could be a greater punishment than not getting into heaven. Yes, but that's just it. We don't know if Jesus was using happy as a metaphor, or he was being specific. But even if he was just using it as a metaphor then that still means that Heaven is going to be joyful and good. There is no bad in heaven,Jesus said so himself. But Jesus also spoke of Hell. He had to. He couldn't jut tell the people that if they followed him they would go to heaven, he also had to tell them what would happen if they turned against him. You don't have to believe in Hell, I'm just making a point, but no matter what words Jesus used to describe Heaven, they were all good and all happy.
druscilla. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 1671	August 1st, 2007 at 08:01pm PrettyHandsomeAkward: druscilla; ryry: I don't. If God were all loving he wouldn't have ordered thousands of people sent to the slaughter. He send them to hell. He would love them unconditionally. He doesn't. God didn't. He gave humans free will. We created evil NOT God. We created war and suffering. God doesn't send any one to hell, not if they repent and are truly sorry. He told his "chosen people" to go to war with other people and kill them. He ordered them to do so.

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