Hunting

Okay... i'm a hunter... i have been since i was 5... it's something that was born into me... it's just something that i do...

however... i think hunters get a lot of bad press for the actions of a select few people that just happen to be the bad ones of the bunch... Dick Cheney for example... lol.

Anyways... I hunt out of necessity... i don't kill more than is necessary... if at all... i just kill when my freezer is getting low on meat... and then i wait til it is low on meat again before i kill again... so... really... i guess you could call me more of a wildlife manager than anything...

i don't see anything wrong with it, if (like all things) it is taken in moderation...

here's another topic that you can debate about here... what about pen raised wildlife... i only hunt free range... and i only still hunt (meaning that i don't use dogs or anything like that to try and force the animals into view) i know that for certain types of game (especially whitetail deer) this is a really popular way to hunt... i think it's completely wrong... what do you think?

I believe that hunting for sport is wrong. Hunting for food is fine.

We were very poor growing up and got through the winter on deer, rabbit, and fish that my uncles hunted for us. There were hunters in the area that hunted for sport but donated the meat, which to me was okay because at least someone was benefitting from the food. There were also hunters who took only the trophy and left the carcass, which to me is wrong. That's killing for killing's sake, not for food. No one benefits from that, and too much of it can even upset the natural balance by giving too many predators an easy meal so that they deny their natural instincts.

You say that you do it only as needed for food. I only go to the grocery store when I am low on food. The only difference is that you probably enjoy a hunting trip more than I enjoy going to the grocery store. Besides, I think the only thing you can hunt in FL is gator, and I don't think I want to try that.

I think that if you want to hunt, then its your choice, but you really gotta be prepared for the PETA maniacs who are gonna try and eat you alive for your actions.

I personally could never go hunting. But thats just me. I went to a Cabella's once (a hunting store) and it was basically a stuffed museum. It was literally a hunting mall. The hunting part I was ok with...the stuffed...I almost threw up. I love animals, but Im not an animal rights maniac. I eat meat, I wear leather, and I get attacked by vegan's all the time. Just be careful, there will be people out to get you for it.

genresR4losers:

however... i think hunters get a lot of bad press for the actions of a select few people that just happen to be the bad ones of the bunch... Dick Cheney for example... lol.

I don't think Dick Cheney is the reason for hunters getting a bad reputation... I think hunters get a bad reputation because many people do not believe it is okay to kill an animal.

I am against killing animals, so, obviously, I have a problem with hunting. However, I would rather see people hunting than factory farming for two reasons:
(1) It's not as cruel. The animals do not endure the same level of abuse.
(2) Less people would eat meat. I just recently became a vegetarian, but I never in my life would have been able to handle shooting an animal, and I think a lot of people are like that.

I must say, though, that I find sport and trophy hunting to be two of the more disgusting things on the planet.

NotOkay22:

I think that if you want to hunt, then its your choice, but you really gotta be prepared for the PETA maniacs who are gonna try and eat you alive for your actions.

I personally could never go hunting. But thats just me. I went to a Cabella's once (a hunting store) and it was basically a stuffed museum. It was literally a hunting mall. The hunting part I was ok with...the stuffed...I almost threw up. I love animals, but Im not an animal rights maniac. I eat meat, I wear leather, and I get attacked by vegan's all the time. Just be careful, there will be people out to get you for it.

You say that as if people who are for animal rights and animal welfare do not have a right to speak out against hunting and leather.

Personally, I would rather see people hunting than murdering and skinning a cow in the name of unnecessary fashion.

...That was slightly off topic, but as I said, I felt as though you were saying animal rights people do not have the right to be anti-hunting or anti-leather.

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

You say that as if people who are for animal rights and animal welfare do not have a right to speak out against hunting and leather.

Personally, I would rather see people hunting than murdering and skinning a cow in the name of unnecessary fashion.

i agree with you on killing a cow for fashion, but most of the time the cow was already killed for beef, and the skin is just being used so it isn't wasted (i personally couldn't wear leather, it just the feel that bugs meDX)

i don't see anything really wrong with hunting, unless its sport, then you're just being cruel.

my grandparents and uncles hunt elk for meat, but the elk population is started to get over populated too. i don't think hunting bear is anywhere near right, my grandparents have a bear rug, but they didn't kill it. i hate the person who did though

Girl next door:

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

You say that as if people who are for animal rights and animal welfare do not have a right to speak out against hunting and leather.

Personally, I would rather see people hunting than murdering and skinning a cow in the name of unnecessary fashion.

i agree with you on killing a cow for fashion, but most of the time the cow was already killed for beef, and the skin is just being used so it isn't wasted (i personally couldn't wear leather, it just the feel that bugs meDX)

i don't see anything really wrong with hunting, unless its sport, then you're just being cruel.

my grandparents and uncles hunt elk for meat, but the elk population is started to get over populated too. i don't think hunting bear is anywhere near right, my grandparents have a bear rug, but they didn't kill it. i hate the person who did though

Actually, that isn't how it's done.
Some cows are raised for meat (the skin is part of the meat).
Some are raised for dairy.
And some are raised for leather.
When you eat meat, the skin is either in or on that food.
They don't multitask, cows raised for dairy are killed and disposed of when they are no longer providing properly, cows raised for meat are killed and anything that isn't used for part of the meat is disposed of, and cows used for leather are skinned and murdered.

"i don't see anything really wrong with hunting, unless its sport, then you're just being cruel. "
You don't believe killing an animal is cruel?
Meat is not necessary- protein is, but there are many ways to get protein without eating a corpse.
I find it cruel to murder an animal unless the alternative is that the animal will have a long, agonizing death otherwise.

"my grandparents and uncles hunt elk for meat, but the elk population is started to get over populated too."
Humans are overpopulated.
Overpopulation does not give us the right to kill... if it did, we should send out hitmen to kill human beings until the population is under control.

Why is it okay to kill elk but not a bear?

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

NotOkay22:

I think that if you want to hunt, then its your choice, but you really gotta be prepared for the PETA maniacs who are gonna try and eat you alive for your actions.

I personally could never go hunting. But thats just me. I went to a Cabella's once (a hunting store) and it was basically a stuffed museum. It was literally a hunting mall. The hunting part I was ok with...the stuffed...I almost threw up. I love animals, but Im not an animal rights maniac. I eat meat, I wear leather, and I get attacked by vegan's all the time. Just be careful, there will be people out to get you for it.

You say that as if people who are for animal rights and animal welfare do not have a right to speak out against hunting and leather.

Personally, I would rather see people hunting than murdering and skinning a cow in the name of unnecessary fashion.

...That was slightly off topic, but as I said, I felt as though you were saying animal rights people do not have the right to be anti-hunting or anti-leather.

Thats not what I meant at all. They have every right to speak out against it, but some people go overboard. Like, me and a friend went to an outdoor mall one day and there was this group speaking out against animal cruelty. Well my friend was wearing a fur jacket...uh oh. They threw paint at us and tried to attack us...not the happiest time of my life.

What I was saying is that there are some people out there who are really going to try and hurt you for hunting or wearing leather or fur, and that people who hunt, and other such things need to be careful.

Not all people against those things are like that, but you can never tell just from looking at a person.

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

Girl next door:

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

You say that as if people who are for animal rights and animal welfare do not have a right to speak out against hunting and leather.

Personally, I would rather see people hunting than murdering and skinning a cow in the name of unnecessary fashion.

i agree with you on killing a cow for fashion, but most of the time the cow was already killed for beef, and the skin is just being used so it isn't wasted (i personally couldn't wear leather, it just the feel that bugs meDX)

i don't see anything really wrong with hunting, unless its sport, then you're just being cruel.

my grandparents and uncles hunt elk for meat, but the elk population is started to get over populated too. i don't think hunting bear is anywhere near right, my grandparents have a bear rug, but they didn't kill it. i hate the person who did though

Actually, that isn't how it's done.
Some cows are raised for meat (the skin is part of the meat).
Some are raised for dairy.
And some are raised for leather.
When you eat meat, the skin is either in or on that food.
They don't multitask, cows raised for dairy are killed and disposed of when they are no longer providing properly, cows raised for meat are killed and anything that isn't used for part of the meat is disposed of, and cows used for leather are skinned and murdered.

"i don't see anything really wrong with hunting, unless its sport, then you're just being cruel. "
You don't believe killing an animal is cruel?
Meat is not necessary- protein is, but there are many ways to get protein without eating a corpse.
I find it cruel to murder an animal unless the alternative is that the animal will have a long, agonizing death otherwise.

"my grandparents and uncles hunt elk for meat, but the elk population is started to get over populated too."
Humans are overpopulated.
Overpopulation does not give us the right to kill... if it did, we should send out hitmen to kill human beings until the population is under control.

Why is it okay to kill elk but not a bear?

Meat is better for your body then most protein substitutes that can be found. Not all, but some.

Having a family that comes from Wisconsen, I have always been around hunting, and was never very uncomfortable with it. I am against hunting for sport, but if the hunter has every intention of using the parts of the animal, then it's ok by me. What better way to get yourself real, healthy food then to hunt it yourself?

I even know some hunters that donate what they hunt to shelters to feed the poor.

NotOkay22:

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

Girl next door:

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

You say that as if people who are for animal rights and animal welfare do not have a right to speak out against hunting and leather.

Personally, I would rather see people hunting than murdering and skinning a cow in the name of unnecessary fashion.

i agree with you on killing a cow for fashion, but most of the time the cow was already killed for beef, and the skin is just being used so it isn't wasted (i personally couldn't wear leather, it just the feel that bugs meDX)

i don't see anything really wrong with hunting, unless its sport, then you're just being cruel.

my grandparents and uncles hunt elk for meat, but the elk population is started to get over populated too. i don't think hunting bear is anywhere near right, my grandparents have a bear rug, but they didn't kill it. i hate the person who did though

Actually, that isn't how it's done.
Some cows are raised for meat (the skin is part of the meat).
Some are raised for dairy.
And some are raised for leather.
When you eat meat, the skin is either in or on that food.
They don't multitask, cows raised for dairy are killed and disposed of when they are no longer providing properly, cows raised for meat are killed and anything that isn't used for part of the meat is disposed of, and cows used for leather are skinned and murdered.

"i don't see anything really wrong with hunting, unless its sport, then you're just being cruel. "
You don't believe killing an animal is cruel?
Meat is not necessary- protein is, but there are many ways to get protein without eating a corpse.
I find it cruel to murder an animal unless the alternative is that the animal will have a long, agonizing death otherwise.

"my grandparents and uncles hunt elk for meat, but the elk population is started to get over populated too."
Humans are overpopulated.
Overpopulation does not give us the right to kill... if it did, we should send out hitmen to kill human beings until the population is under control.

Why is it okay to kill elk but not a bear?

Meat is better for your body then most protein substitutes that can be found. Not all, but some.

Not according to any of the doctors I've talked to.
Or the nutritionist I went to when I went veg.
That's part of the reason why you see more tofu, tempah, and soy at health food stores than real meat.

Meat is fatty, and it's almost impossible to tell what has been in what you're eating.
Most meat is actually bad for you.

NotOkay22:

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

NotOkay22:

I think that if you want to hunt, then its your choice, but you really gotta be prepared for the PETA maniacs who are gonna try and eat you alive for your actions.

I personally could never go hunting. But thats just me. I went to a Cabella's once (a hunting store) and it was basically a stuffed museum. It was literally a hunting mall. The hunting part I was ok with...the stuffed...I almost threw up. I love animals, but Im not an animal rights maniac. I eat meat, I wear leather, and I get attacked by vegan's all the time. Just be careful, there will be people out to get you for it.

You say that as if people who are for animal rights and animal welfare do not have a right to speak out against hunting and leather.

Personally, I would rather see people hunting than murdering and skinning a cow in the name of unnecessary fashion.

...That was slightly off topic, but as I said, I felt as though you were saying animal rights people do not have the right to be anti-hunting or anti-leather.

Thats not what I meant at all. They have every right to speak out against it, but some people go overboard. Like, me and a friend went to an outdoor mall one day and there was this group speaking out against animal cruelty. Well my friend was wearing a fur jacket...uh oh. They threw paint at us and tried to attack us...not the happiest time of my life.

What I was saying is that there are some people out there who are really going to try and hurt you for hunting or wearing leather or fur, and that people who hunt, and other such things need to be careful.

Not all people against those things are like that, but you can never tell just from looking at a person.

I've thrown paint at people wearing fur.
It's disgusting to murder an animal so that you can look "good."

I am against violence, but that means all violence- including murdering an innocent creature for fashion or protein that you can EASILY get other ways.

At least people know they have to be careful, a mink has no idea there are people who would spend over a hundred dollars to kill it and wear it.

*sigh* meat is not bad for you. I have also talked doctors, and done my own reserach.

RED meat is bad in large doses.

And meat is just digested slower. If you don't eat meat with bread product, you really won't encounter any problems.

There are actually many cons to the veg diet. You are just as unhealthy as us omnivores

Anyway, its sick that you've been paint chucking. It's not your business what other people do with their lives whether you agree or not. You wouldn't like it if someone destroyed your expensive clothes. Yes, you might not like what they wear, but you have no right to invade their personal space/things. That's a radicalist, immature move on your part.

**This debate your starting belongs in the vegan thread BTW. move plz?

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

Most meat is actually bad for you.

Actually, I ate meat for a long time and since I've stopped have been much healthier. So I would say I encountered problems.

Most doctors will tell you that as long as you make sure you get the proper amount of protein, a vegetarian diet is healthier.

http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/:

Studies have shown that vegetarians (following a well-balanced low-fat high-fibre vegetarian diet) often have lower incidence of coronary artery disease, hypertension, obesity and some forms of cancer.
A vegetarian diet tends to be lower in total fat, and vegetarians tend to eat proportionally more polyunsaturated fat to saturated fat compared with non-vegetarians. (Animal products are the major sources of dietary saturated fat).

www.webmd.com:

Susan Berkow, PhD, CNS, and Neal Barnard, MD, of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) reviewed 87 past studies by various researchers. They found that vegetarians were less likely to be obese and that vegetarian diets brought greater weight loss.


If properly planned, vegetarian diets are healthy and can provide all the nutrients a person needs. As a group, vegetarians have:
Lower cholesterol levels.
Lower body mass indexes.
Less risk of dying from coronary artery disease (CAD).
Less risk of getting high blood pressure.
Less risk of getting prostate or colorectal cancer.
Less risk of getting type 2 diabetes.

Sounds to me like the experts believe it is healthier to be vegetarian.
Weight loss, lower risk of certain cancers, lower risk of high blood pressure, lower risk of certain heart diseases, lower rate of hypertension..... all of that sounds pretty healthy to me.
I also searched WebMD to see what I could find as far as health cons a vegetarian diet, and (so you don't think I am unfairly selecting things that support my lifestyle) here is the results page:
http://www.webmd.com/search/search_results/default.aspx?sourceType=all&query=negatives%20of%20vegetarian%20diet
And here are some of the things I found:

www.webmd.com:

A diet rich in meats and sweets can boost the risk of breast cancer in older women by 60% or more compared with a diet rich in vegetables, soy, and fresh fish, a new study of Asian women shows.

While there is no breast cancer diet, per se, the researchers did find that certain dietary patterns can boost the risk of developing breast cancer.

Breast cancer rates are typically low among Asian women, but as their breast cancer rates have climbed steadily in recent years, experts have begun to focus on the effect that adopting Western eating habits has on Asians. "There is a hypothesis that a Western diet increases the risk of breast cancer," Marilyn Tseng, PhD, a study co-author, tells WebMD.

So her team carefully evaluated the diets of 1,459 breast cancer patients and 1,556 healthy women in Shanghai to see if they could find a link between diet and breast cancer risk. "It's the first time a Western diet pattern has been linked with breast cancer in Asian women," says Tseng, an associate professor in the population science division at Fox Chase Cancer Center in Philadelphia. The effect held true only for the older women.

"Anyway, its sick that you've been paint chucking. It's not your business what other people do with their lives whether you agree or not. You wouldn't like it if someone destroyed your expensive clothes. Yes, you might not like what they wear, but you have no right to invade their personal space/things. That's a radicalist, immature move on your part."
It's sick that people brutally murder animals in the name of "fashion."
I wouldn't wear a dead animal. If somebody wastes their money on a murdered, innocent creature, THAT is sick.

"It's none of your business..."
However, innocent animals are murdered. Should people not speak out and demonstrate against murders because it's "not their business?"
No.
What's immature is people believing it is okay to murder a fox so they can get a coat out of it.
Have you seen the way they kill those animals? There is absolutely NO need for anyone to drag a fox that is bleeding to death across the floor of a fur farm, there is absolutely NO need for people to bash seals over the head, there is absolutely NO need for people to stuff ten minks into a cage that would hardly hold five. THAT is immature, THAT is sick, and THAT is DISGUSTING.

**I didn't start this. But I am responding to things people are saying to me.

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

You don't believe killing an animal is cruel?
Meat is not necessary- protein is, but there are many ways to get protein without eating a corpse.
I find it cruel to murder an animal unless the alternative is that the animal will have a long, agonizing death otherwise.

yes protein is, and its found in beans i know, but you cant expect everyone to stop eating meat and have beans. no i don't think killing a animal is cruel, it really depends on the animal. if you kill a dog that's cruel, a cow is mostly there for meat and dairy. as long as animals don't go extinct because of hunting, I'm fine with it (murder:the killing of human being)

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

Humans are overpopulated.
Overpopulation does not give us the right to kill... if it did, we should send out hitmen to kill human beings until the population is under control.

I'm sorry but you cant really compare a animal to a human being. human being are intelligent and have a sense of reasoning, most animals are not intelligent and most (if not all) cant reason for the obvious.

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

Why is it okay to kill elk but not a bear?

because most bears are becoming extinct. like i said elk are so overpopulated that if you go to the woods (mostly in Canada and Washington) you'll see their ribs and are so weak that the fall and die where they land.

All_You_Need_Is_Love:

Not according to any of the doctors I've talked to.
Or the nutritionist I went to when I went veg.
That's part of the reason why you see more tofu, tempah, and soy at health food stores than real meat.

Meat is fatty, and it's almost impossible to tell what has been in what you're eating.
Most meat is actually bad for you.

meat is healthy, but other products are or could be healthier, but this generation and future generations aren't going to stop eating meat. animals eat other animals, its nature.

meat is fatty, but almost everything is fatty now, there's calories in a apple, and fat is necessary for the human body its how much of it you eat that effects your health.

its not really impossible to tell what you're getting, if you go to a butcher. i don't trust the meat you get at a market, and most of the meat i get comes for the butcher.

if you want to catch up with this with me on the vegetarian or whatever thread I'll be happy too, but we cant keep spamming this thread

I could, and if you want, I WILL cite webpage over webpage of experts on the positives of an omnivore/or heavy meat diet in the vegan thread if you want. When it comes to the diet debate, all that really matters is one thing: Who is actually BALANCING their diet. Trust me, you get the same effects either way. Vegans are typically only more healthy because they actually are forced to balance their diet, but there are plenty of very healthy omnivores too: the ones that actually take care in what they eat.

I never said I agreed with fur, I don't unless it's from an animal that was used as food, and the fur is the spoils. Just because you disagree with somethign doesn't mean you should take such radical measures. That coat may not be your cuppa, but someone else believed in it, and you had no right to shit all over that. If you don't like fur, don't wear it, but what you did was invasive. I don't give a crap what you believe, but acting the way you did won't change anything. It's those actions that make people like me spit on the animal rights movement.

According to many years of medical research, you don't get the same effects.


I never claimed there weren't healthy omnivores. However, according to a lot of research, vegetarians are statistically healthier.

I also never said you agree with fur.
Animals used to make fur coats are not used for meat, even if that is how they did it.

People don't have the right to murder an innocent creature so that they can "look good."
I have every right to take radical measures if I feel necessary.

People who wear fur and leather paid for an INNOCENT animal to be brutally murdered.

The belief that doing something that disgusting is one reason why the human race is so disgusting... because so many humans believe we have the right to say:
"You deserve to live comfortably... you deserve to live in the wilderness and fend for yourself... you have the right to be brutally murdered so I can wear you... and you only have the right to be my dinner."
That is disgusting, pompus, and absolutely sick.