Marriage.

I've noticed a lot of people saying they don't believe in marriage at all, and since the question of what kind of couples are eligible for marriage is a major political topic these days, I thought I would create this thread.
So:

- What effect does marriage have on people and society at large? Do you think marriage is good or bad for society?
- What makes a couple eligible for marriage? (i.e. age, sex, mental ability, etc)
- What would happen if marriage was abolished altogether?
- Do you think marriage should be limited to only two people or should more people be allowed to marry (i.e., allowing three people to get married to each other--often known as polygamy)?
- Do you personally believe in marriage? Why or why not?

Without answering the set out questions - I really do not believe in marriage.

The only cirumstances I believe marriage is valid is when two people are very religious. Other than that, I really see absolutely no use for it in a modern day society.

I really just don't see why you have to have a piece of paper proclaiming that you love each other - when you can do that in the privacy & comfort of your own home every day. You don't need people to witness your love. Love is a very personal thing & so it should be. It doesn't really concern anyone outside of it.

People say to me alot, oh it's better for legal reasons, what about the children, etc.
I still see none of those as valid points. You don't HAVE to married to have children and be good parents and support them, I can't see any legal reasons you HAVE to married.
From my point of view, the whole legal side of it just makes it worse. I'm not sure of the actual statistics, but I do know that's it something like half of marriages end i divorce these days - I mean, surely losing all the money & possessions (potentially) that you worked hard for and having a messy legal battle in front of your children is far worse than just a clean break.

What I think is even worse, is that some families try to bully their children into getting married because 'it's what you do'. Perhaps when our parents were kids it was, but not anymore.

I just don't see what difference it would make to two people already in a long term relationship.

I can see both sides of the issue.

I was married in 1999. We met when I was 17 and married when I was 21. Most people asked me how old our kids were because they assumed that since we married young we did it because we "had to." (note: we don't have children)

Our marriage is not a typical one. We both have the freedom to live our seperate lives, pursue our seperate interests. We've vacationed seperately. But we do love and trust each other completely which allows this kind of relationship.

Most people freak out when I tell them that. They are attached at the hip to their spouse/boy/girl friend and can't imagine doing anything without them. But I have the things that I enjoyed before that I enjoy still that he doesn't, and vice versa. Along the way we've picked up interests that the other didn't (for me, it was comics and now MCR) and we've been free to enjoy the new interests as well. Neither of us expected the other to become exactly the same so that we could live a boring, homogenized life.

On that same token, we also sat down before we got married and spelled everything out. Divorce is not an option for us. I saw my parents divorce each other twice then other spouses along the way, and I didn't want that for my life. My husband's parents are going on their 35th anniversary and he wanted that for himself. We've lost loved ones, friends, a baby. We've leaned on each other and we've gotten through it. We've fought, and we've made up. There's nothing that's worth losing what we've worked so hard for.

I've also seen people be in long term relationships without marriage, and the break-up was worse than if they'd married because it was hard to say who owned what. It was messier than any divorce I'd ever seen. But that's only one story, there are a million others and maybe that was the exception rather than the rule. I don't know.

I believe that marriage would help society if it were taken seriously and valued. At the moment, in today's world, I don't feel that it is so I don't see it really making much of a difference.

I believe that the only eligibility for marriage is that the two people love one another and are committed to their relationship and want to make it legal. I believe that marriage is between 2 people. Gender does not matter to me. If they love one another, want to care for one another, and are willing to work to make their marriage successful, they should be allowed to marry.

I don't think that abolishing marriage would help anyone. Telling people not to do something only makes them want to do it more.

Do I believe in marriage? Yes I do. But I also believe that people have the right to not marry if they so choose. It was what I wanted for myself and I think it has made me a stronger, better person. But I don't feel that anyone should feel pressured into marriage or ever be made to feel that "it's the right thing to do." It's only the right thing to do if YOU feel that it is.

- I think marriage has less effect on society than on the individual persons involved. Marriage is a personal choice. It can be good or bad, like all choices in life.

- The only thing I would prefer for marriage eligibility would be age. I think 18 is a nice, legal number.

- You can't abolish marriage, at least not without abolishing religion. But even so, it would have little affect.

- I think marriage should be between two people. Honestly, being married myself I can say without a doubt that one is more than enough hard work for one lifetime.

- I personally believe in marriage. For me, it was about making the commitment to be with someone for the rest of my life. That's not the same as dating someone long term. There's a commitment in long-term dating, but it's not the same as pledging your entire life to someone, as having a ceremony where you display your love, make it public, make the promise. It's not the paper so much as the promise. It's not so much the wedding, as it is the vows.

My wedding was about making an everlasting bond between me and my husband. It was about uniting two people together into one person. It wasn't about the piece of paper, that doesn't matter. What really matters to us was the actual act of the marriage, the vows we spoke to one another. It was important for us to also symbolically join our two families together into one big family. When you're standing beside someone you love more than the waking world and you're hearing them pledge to live for you, to stay faithful to you and to love you with every ounce of their souls in front of everyone you know, it's the greatest feeling in the world. Marriage is symbolic, it's a mentality, it's an emotional journey.

It means a lot to me, my husband and I really have become one person and one family. It means so much more to me to be his "wife" than just his girlfriend. It says to others that we are capable of a stronger level of commitment, a deeper level of respect and that by taking this step, we've demonstrated a new level maturity and personal, emotional responsibility.

But it's not for everyone. Some people want it for the sake of tradition. Because that's why their parents did and thats how they were raised or that's how their particular religion outlines life as being. Some girls I know are entirely obsessed with the fairy tale aspect of it, the ballgown dress, the big party in their honor and all the shopping. They're mystified by the romance of a wedding and they're hoping for storybook love. That's not what marriage is about. And some people don't want it at all and that is perfectly fine with me. Some people want different lifestyles, some people hate tradition (I know I do) and some people will never be truly tied down. But I would say, that if you choose to take that step, it's totally worth it.

- What effect does marriage have on people and society at large? Do you think marriage is good or bad for society?

Marriage only affects people in the way they want to be affected by it, like if you think that you should be married before sex and children then you are going to frown upon others who think that sex before marriage and children before marriage is ok. I don't think marriage affects society so much, its the individuals involved that marriage affects - say if your parents divorce then their marriage impacts you and any siblings but not neccessarily affects your next door neighbour.

- What makes a couple eligible for marriage? (i.e. age, sex, mental ability, etc)

well i would have to say that there should be an age limit to getting married because the legalities involved in divorce are amazing and if you married too young and then got divorced it would cause a horrible amount of strain on each of the people involved and any children. So placing an age limit would prevent more divorces from happening in my opinion

- What would happen if marriage was abolished altogether?

hmm well then i think they would have to come up with new laws about who gets what when people who have been living together and sharing houses etc separate, custody of any children the 2 people may have had etc. I think it would also be very sad, marriage and wedding days are wonderful times (sometimes) and it would be a shame not to have these things to celebrate, not to mention all the people and businesses that would lose out because they don't have a market to sell to or products to create anymore

- Do you think marriage should be limited to only two people or should more people be allowed to marry (i.e., allowing three people to get married to each other--often known as polygamy)?

well whatever floats your boat, it could just get messy with jealousy and divorce but hey, if that's what you wanna do go for it

- Do you personally believe in marriage? Why or why not?

I do believe in marriage and i am married - despite the fact that my parents split and it was a pretty messy divorce, my husbands parents aren't exactly happily married although they won't admit it, i love my husband and i enjoyed being engaged and getting married, it was wonderful and i had the best time. For me it's just the little things that i enjoy like calling him my husband and changing my name and being called Mrs. also in the eyes of 'society' and the law it's the highest place a relationship can get so that's kinda cool. Other than that it doesn't change much, our relationship is still the same and we still love each other the same. daymn beeblebrox said it so much better than me, read her answer above^

i really dont think that marriage has an affect on society at all. the most affect it has is probably a goal that some people want, to get married start a family, all that jazz.

for me personally, i dont want to get married. i watched my parents get divorced and it was horrible. my dad was abusive in several ways to my mom and us, he's the reason that we lost our house, he's the reason i had to move to a new city, new school, living with my grandmother. and it was all because of the divorce. and she said that when they first got married she really did believe that he loved her.

and not only that, but most marriages end in divorce. i mean i dont mind living with the person. if we love each other and we both put into the relationship that i see no point in making it legal.

Beeblebrox:

it was about making the commitment to be with someone for the rest of my life. That's not the same as dating someone long term. There's a commitment in long-term dating, but it's not the same as pledging your entire life to someone, as having a ceremony where you display your love, make it public, make the promise. It's not the paper so much as the promise. It's not so much the wedding, as it is the vows. It means so much more to me to be his "wife" than just his girlfriend. It says to others that we are capable of a stronger level of commitment, a deeper level of respect and that by taking this step, we've demonstrated a new level maturity and personal, emotional responsibility.

I take exception to these statements. I never legally married the person to whom I nonetheless refer as my late husband, but I can tell you right now that we lived and breathed every single one of those "vows" for 17 years. Anyone can pledge anything to anybody, then go ahead, walk right off and do whatever they want to do anyway; happens all the time, hence the high divorce rate. The "levels of commitment, responsibility and maturity," so to speak, lie within the hearts and minds of the parties involved, not the ceremony or the piece of paper. We referred to one another as spouses because as far as we were concerned, that is what we were. That is how we viewed ourselves, and we didn't need anyone else to verify that for us. Another thing: most states and countries disallow gay marriage. Does this mean that gay couples are automatically incapable of achieving that same "level of commitment, responsibility and maturity" simply because of this fact?

Mary Alice Brandon:

I don't. I think it's just a piece of paper that gives you a few extra rights, like to be named next of kin or beneficiary if your husband/wife has no will

It's actually more than just a 'few' extra rights. It's more like 1,400 extra rights, including, but not limited too:

joint parenting;
joint adoption;
joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);
status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;
joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;
dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;
immigration and residency for partners from other countries;
inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;
joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;
inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);
benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;
spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;
veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;
joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;
bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;
decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;
crime victims' recovery benefits;
loss of consortium tort benefits;
domestic violence protection orders;
judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;

If you're not married things like owning a home and insurance are trickier business. Businesses would rather sell homes and insurance to a married couple than an unmarried couple.

What effect does marriage have on people and society at large? Do you think marriage is good or bad for society?
Marriage is good for society when done right. Because marriage is good for society, and divorce is bad for society. So unless you truly are gonna stick to your vows (which it seems less and less people do these days), then dont bother getting married at all. So many people treat marriage like its worthless. Just because you're fighting or have fallen "out of love" then that means you can just walk away. Thats bull. Marriage is till death. No matter how many fights or disagreements you work it out anyway, cause you made a commitment. So grow up and honor it.

What makes a couple eligible for marriage? (i.e. age, sex, mental ability, etc)
A man and a woman who are of legal age. Simple.

What would happen if marriage was abolished altogether?
Relationships in general would probably fall apart all together.

Do you think marriage should be limited to only two people or should more people be allowed to marry (i.e., allowing three people to get married to each other--often known as polygamy)?
No. Marriage is between one man and one woman. Its about the commitment of two people and two people alone.

Do you personally believe in marriage? Why or why not?
Yes. I believe that marriage and family is pretty much a basis for our society. That doesnt mean everyone needs to get married, for some its just not the right thing, and thats ok, but in general I believe marriage benefits society as a whole. There are also some people who's lives have been fulfilled by a happy, healthy, marriage, which I would say is very important.

even then things shouldnt be that way, times have clearly changed when it comes down to marriage. and i wouldnt marry someone just because it'll save me money on insurance. a relationship can fall apart just as easily as a marriage, but a marriage is harder to get out of. and i personally dont feel right taking a vow of for better for worse, til death do us part, if in reality its a case if for better or until its not working.

John St. John:

What do you guys think about the plan to force divorcing couples to go through a three month mandatory cooling off period after the divorce is filed in order to reduce divorce rates in the UK? Is it a good idea?

I think its a good idea for one simple reason: So that people arent getting divorced on a whim. Its really easy to get angry at eachother and then in the heat of the moment just be like "I want a divorce" and then immediately get one. The point is that divorce should not be easy, and it shouldnt be something that people can decide in the heat of the moment. Its something that should be seriously thought through. Im not sure if it would bring down the divorce rate, but it definitely makes it so people have no choice but to sit and think through their divorce.

I think there is also something along those lines in the US. My aunt & uncle are getting divorced and I think it was a certain amount of months that they had to wait before the divorce could be finalized. Im not sure how long it is though.

John St. John:

What do you guys think about the plan to force divorcing couples to go through a three month mandatory cooling off period after the divorce is filed in order to reduce divorce rates in the UK? Is it a good idea?

I don't know about a mandatory thing, but I think couples should give it one more shot before divorcing. I think couples should go to marriage counseling before making any final decisions, especially if there are children involved.

I'm married. I got married because I wanted to, not because anyone told me I had to. I found the love of my life and I wanted to be able to call him my husband because that"s what I've always wanted for myself. Marriage isn't for everyone, but to say it's a bad thing for everyone is just ignorant. It's a good thing if you want it. It's a bad thing if you don't want it, but do it anyway.

As far as who should be allowed to get married: Any two people who love each other and want to remain faithful to each other for the rest of their lives regardless of race or sex.

^^
Because there will be people who wont think about it beforehand, and who after one or two big disagreements will decide to call it quits then and there. Sometimes we have to force people to sit back and think about what they are doing, because there are times when they wont do that themselves.

Ghostgirl191:

a relationship can fall apart just as easily as a marriage, but a marriage is harder to get out of. and i personally dont feel right taking a vow of for better for worse, til death do us part, if in reality its a case if for better or until its not working.

You're right, a relationship between people who aren't married can fall apart just as easy as one between people who are. But it is not necessarily harder to get out of a marriage. What makes seperations difficult, are the people involved, more than the status the relationship has in the eyes of the Church, or law. You can have an amicable divorce just as easily as a horribly nasty end to a non-married relationship.

Marriage is not a case of 'for better or unti it's not working'. That's not what it was ever intended to be, and IMHO the people who go into it thinking that way are highly likely to be the ones getting divorced in one way or other. Either because they can't be bothered to work on the relationship when it could possibly be saved, or because they don't take it seriously enough, thinking it means nothing and there's an easy out if they want it.

^ to add to that, what if the relationship is abusive? I would imagine that it would be much harder to get a restraining order against your spouse.

questionable content:

^ to add to that, what if the relationship is abusive? I would imagine that it would be much harder to get a restraining order against your spouse.

Um, I don't think it would be... I'm pretty sure the law doesn't care whether people are married in cases where a restraining order might be necessary. But being in a marriage where a restaining order might be necessary, would probably be a better case for divorce also, if the person feels so worried for their safety. In any case, I know there have been plenty of cases where a woman has accused her husband of rape, and had it upheld and taken seriously, so I should think a restraining order wouldn't be too big a deal.