Religion Interfereing With Serious Topics
| Author | Message |
|---|---|
| Elwood. Fabulous Killjoy  Age: - Gender: - Posts: 125 | I think organized religion in general is pretty silly. The Bible is full of contradictions, and no one ever seems to notice that. There's even a section on how a man can sell his daughter into sexual slavery. But hey, to each his own. |
| thank fsm. In The Murder Scene  Age: 36 Gender: Female Posts: 20564 | Mr.Armstrong: Haven't you heard the theory that pretty much all organized religion (Christianity especially) was created to control the masses? |
| questionable content Always Born a Crime  Age: 28 Gender: Female Posts: 5604 | Personally, I think that the bible was written by people who put /their/ values, their beliefs in it. So, maybe they believed in slavery, they believed in what we consider unethical today, but it just goes to show, that things have changed, and maybe, the bible has sections that are very outdated. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor  Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | Chris Martin: key word in your sentance is "THEORY" have you heard the theory where the higher being is a giant flying spaghetti monster. no seriously its a real theory. The laws that are created are reflective of societies social and moral code, generally people think that whats in the bible is good. And frankly i think the bible/koran is an excellent source to get the codes for which to base societies rules. ive always been very proud of my catholic faith and i notice that alot of people have a generally vague and often miss guided approach to religion, especially monotheism. i'de be happy to answer questions about the bible and its place in society. |
| Firegarder Joining The Black Parade  Age: 38 Gender: Female Posts: 233 | Migamphetamine: The flying Spagetti monster is not a real theory, that's an atheist joke like the invisible pink unicorn. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | like so many other things .. |
| girl interrupted. Salute You in Your Grave  Age: 29 Gender: Female Posts: 2792 | religion and politics should be seperate, because not everyone is one religion. hell, not everyone's religious. so how can you force your 'blind leap of faith' on someone who would prefer to walk on solid groud? i have no right to go up to a muslim person and say, "you should be christian", just as they would have no right to say "you should convert to islam." so why should a religious person walk up to a gay person and say "you should be straight because my god doesn't agree with homosexuality". by the way, i'm not saying all religious people are like that, or are homophobes, but y'know, example. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | But like thats impossible to seperate them. Most people that are in power have some sort of faith. the only way there would be a complete seperation was if there were a whole line of athiests in power. the idea of religion not having any part with politics is impossible because religion dictates what people percieve to be right and wrong and what people percieve to be right and wrong will become law |
| thank fsm. In The Murder Scene Age: 36 Gender: Female Posts: 20564 | Migamphetamine: Another way to put it is that it's a "belief," as is all religion. I feel that you were trying to cheapen the idea by trivializing the word theory, which would be strange, since many theories in the past have turned into what are regarded as facts by society. You're right about the basic idea that what's in the Bible, the things it tells people to do, are pretty much on target. It's basically just about being a good and honest person. I mean, aside from worshiping and sexuality and things, I mean, because that goes a lot deeper and is really up to the individual in my opinion. But aside from that it's something people should understand is a good idea. Don't cheat, don't steal, don't kill people, don't do that stuff. Also, this thread title is a little strange to me. Religion IS a serious topic - as serious or MORE serious than any political election or anything of that nature, I'd say. |
| questionable content Always Born a Crime Age: 28 Gender: Female Posts: 5604 | Chris Martin: I think it all depends on who you ask. It's not serious to all people, (like me, I identify as an atheist), or even to some of my religious friends. Say, in the United States. Not everyone is a Christian, but we all have to abide by the same laws, and I think that's where the title is coming from, at least regarding politics. |
| tabitha Bleeding on the Floor  Age: 45 Gender: Female Posts: 1831 | Rather than pyramid quote, I'll just reference each as I go, because I find this discussion fascinating and have quite a bit I would like to add in hopes of moving the topic forward and encouraging some more discussion. I would like to preface my post with the disclaimer that I am a non-denominational Christian with respect for all faiths. That being said: 1) The Bible is a group of stories written *by man* and therefore fallible. While there is scientific evidence of many of the events that occurred in the Bible as true, and Christ appears in many writings of the time other than the Bible -- in the Bible, he is the Son of God, in other texts, he's a nut job. Having the events recorded by a human being, that person automatically puts their own interpretation on the event as they write it; it is not a non-biased account, they are not impartial to the events that they recorded. One person will read a passage and glean one meaning, while someone else will read it and glean something entirely different. Neither reader is wrong, they only read it and put it into their own life's context. Not to mention, as Alice Cullen points out, the Bible has been translated countless times over the ages, with each translator choosing which nuance to emphasize. To expect everyone to read one book and get one meaning from it is impossible. To have people read the book and use it as a guideline is probably a better idea. 2) Morality and ethics both predate the Christian religion. Looking at scientific evidence from pre-written history, humans have always lived by some kind of a code, by and large in some group form. From a purely instinctual standpoint, there is strength and survival in numbers. Forensic anthropology points to our earliest ancestors as applying status to members of the group, which would lead to the idea that the person of highest status being a leader and keeping the group from killing each other. Not to say that murder hasn't been around forever -- the Bible even puts Cain's murder of Abel as one of the first sins ever recorded. But without some person keeping some order, our ancestors would have killed each other off and forced us into extinction rather than flourishing. Another example is the religion (for lack of a better word) of Stoicism which is my husband's faith of choice. Many Christian fundamentals are founded on Stoic beliefs. Many of the ideas that we think of as "Christian" tenants are either found in multiple religions, or have been around before Christ was and are just accepted as right and moral. Using murder as an example again -- murder was just as wrong when Cain killed Abel as it was last night when I'm sure someone somewhere was murdered. The idea that one human taking another human's life as wrong has been around time immeasurable. It didn't take Jesus saying it to make it ethical. 3) Mr. Armstrong states that "religion was created to ground rules." I respectfully disagree, and would love to speak with you more about this. Religion is primarily creation myths, with a belief structure and rules or commandments handed down by the creator present in each creation myth. For an example: Native Americans believe in the Great Spirit, or Earth Mother, and different tribes had different stories about that creation and how to worship the creator in their legend, as well as how to treat each other according to that creator. I am, however, very interested in your thought, and respectfully ask you to expand on your belief a little more, if you please. 4) Regarding the American government and its foundation on the Christian faith; it follows because our forefathers fled to this country to escape religious persecution in their homelands. Being that they felt strongly enough about their Christianity that they were willing to leave their homes and settle half a world away, of course their rules would be founded on their faith. Contemporary laws have the ability to be both bi-partisan and inter-denominational, but until we as a country elect truly bi-partisan and/or non-denominational leadership, our laws will smack of Christian ethics because our leaders, for right or wrong, will look to their faith (or to the lobbyist with the most money, but that's another thread altogether!) when deciding how to vote on the issues at hand. 5) A lot of the posters here are using the argument that "Christians believe that their faith is the only one." That is true -- but remember that every faith believes the same thing. Christians get more press because of our history, but remember that the Muslims fought as long and as hard for their faith during the religious wars, and both sides did horrible acts in the name of their God. It is impossible to claim to belong to a faith, but not act in accordance to that faith; otherwise, you are a hypocrite. You can be of a faith but be open to the ideas of other faiths, but when push comes to shove, if you say you believe in Christ, you have to mean it. That's what faith *is*. You can't say you are a Christian but then say that, well, maybe that Jesus guy was just really smart and nice to everybody. You either believe in it as the truth, or you're not really a Christian. And so on for every religion or belief. You can have your faith or belief, but remember that what is right to you may be in direct opposition to what your neighbor was taught, and their faith is just as much as part of them as your faith is to you. Therefore, no one, Christian or otherwise, has a right to tell anyone that their belief is wrong. Christians are by our faith told to go and spread the word; we are not told to torture or harass others into believing as we do. Our faith is that God created each person with a mind and free will. You can tell the story until you are blue in the face, but you cannot make someone believe if they don't want to believe. The argument back and forth "Prove God exists" and "Prove God doesn't exist" is moot. Religion is, by its very nature, *faith* -- which is defined as "belief that is not based on proof." Therefore Christianity is not supposed to be *proven,* it is supposed to be followed based on *faith*. Either you believe, or you don't. Free will allows each person to decide for themselves. But as no religion is able to be *proven* beyond a shadow of a doubt, *no one* can claim their religion as the one and only true religion. We can believe it in our hearts, but we can not prove it nor force others to believe it. 6) Die Die Die brings up a good point about the labeling of things as "Christian". C.S. Lewis wrote his Chronicles of Narnia books as Christian books, but they are found in either the children's section or the fiction section, they are rarely (other than in Christian bookstores) put into the Religion section, even though they are allegorical tales written to introduce children to the Christian faith. A contemporary parent, let's say a Muslim parent, doesn't know this and buys the books for their child because of the success of the movie. Shouldn't this parent know that these are, at their core, books about Christianity? Shouldn't it be pointed out that Aslan is representative of Christ? I agree with her on this one. The label should fit the end result; if a band claims to be "Christian" then they should sing songs of worship. Is it right or ethical to *not* claim such a label in an attempt to get your message out underhandedly? Maybe, maybe not, there are no definite rules on the subject. A person's faith doesn't always dictate what job they perform; the worker at McDonald's can be pretty much any religion (other than Hindu, probably, out of deference to their beliefs regarding cows) and it doesn't affect the food that they serve. The meal doesn't become a "Christian" meal because a Christian serves it; it's still just a burger and fries. So this can go either way, and there is many different ideas on the subject. I hope to read other interpretations or ideas on this. 7) I would like to ask postcollapse to not judge all Christians on the actions of one. I'm a Christian, and I am a *huge* Harry Potter fan also! As with any faith, there are those who take it too far and use it to hurt others. I try very hard not to use my faith to judge any actions other than my own, other than glaring sins (rape, murder, child abuse, etc.). I would like to respectfully ask you to be of an open mind and see that mother as the exception rather than the rule. Christians like me are angered by the actions of Christians like her and do not approve of our beliefs being used to hurt or hinder others. PM me if you'd like. I'd love to talk to you. 8 ) Finally, I would like to point out that Christianity is one of the most factionalized religions out there. We have more sects and offshoots than almost any other religion -- we can't even completely agree amongst ourselves on what is right. Take the Westboro Baptist Church or the Yearning For Zion polygamy sects as examples. Westboro preaches almost pure hate for anyone not exactly like them (they are the ones who picket soldiers' funerals and claim that the war is God's vengeance on America for tolerating gays) and the Yearning for Zion sect practices multiple marriage and marriage among minors and (allegedly) among family members. You won't find many Christians who will say that they follow either of those practices, but as long as the belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God is practiced, technically, we are the same religion. Thank you for taking the time to read this rather lengthy post, and I do look forward to replies and delving further into this very interesting topic. |
| thank fsm. In The Murder Scene Age: 36 Gender: Female Posts: 20564 | forgotten.: it's still serious. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't a serious topic, and to think it silly or not serious seems a bit disrespectful to me. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | Caesaris; hooloovoo: Now you realize that Religion is still a important factor in legal and political arguments. The law and people practice within the law are affected my external influences the biggest of these is obviously Religion. There are countless number of judges and lawyers and prosecutors that work on their religious heels, and their morals are obviously dictated my religion. The fact there are more religions means that there are different morals and ideas to cater to, and to thats no problem. Islam catholicism and Judaism all have the same general idea that its wrong to steal and kill and rape.. yes i suppose the bible is full of little contradictions but you have to remember that the book is to interpreted and its people like yourself that look hard into the book to tear it apart. Consider the perspective of the person that found that little tidbit in the bible ? were they Christian ? because person of faith would learn to overlook that part of the bible and understand that it was written there from a different context thousands of years ago. Look at the big picture of the book its basically just a series of scripts that are to be interpreted by the reader, everyone takes something different from it, for some people its the basic foundations of morality . The laws are supposed to be a reflection of societies idea of wrong and right, and for alot of people that comes from religion whether it be christian hindu or jew. if you ask me its actually RIDICULOUS for religion to not have a place in political arguments can |
| questionable content Always Born a Crime Age: 28 Gender: Female Posts: 5604 | Migamphetamine: Can you elaborate on that? I'm not really getting where you're coming from with that. |
| blow Bleeding on the Floor  Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 1137 | forgotten.: Because religion dictates what is right and wrong for a person, people need to know what faith candidates (for any office, mayor, governor, senator, president...) believe in. If Oboma really believed what his crazy reverend was spouting (I think the rvr just wanted his 15 minutes of fame) not many people would want him as our president. While I believe it is wrong to say "I am -insert religion here-. Vote for me!" (though some people do vote based on religion) It is important for people to know what religion a political person follows. When electing someone to office most people want someone that feel best represents their morals and ideals. If they are a highly religious person, they will most likely vote for a highly religious candidate. I don't know if that really makes any sense, it's all a bit confusing for me. The line between church and state is a very ill-defined one. Migamphetamine can probably explain it better when he comes back. |
| Mindfuck Always Born a Crime  Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614 | Eponine: I disagree. I'm an atheist and I personally don't care what religion the Prime Minister is. I voted in our federal election last year based on what I thought a party could do for my demographic, state, country, etc... religion didn't even enter my mind. I don't need to know. And yes, I voted for a party that does have a religious leader, but I couldn't give a s***. Perhaps that's just me personally, but when I'm discussing politics with someone, religion or religion of political leaders rarely comes into play. |
| blow Bleeding on the Floor Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 1137 | Mindfuck: I think it's admirable that you don't care what religion the candidate is, but a lot of people do care. They base their vote on other things as well, but religion can play a key role. I don't think you should vote for someone based on their religion, I'm just saying that most people like to know. If a candidate is part of a muslim extremist group, you want to know. Other people of the same religion as the candidate might say to themselves, "Well he's -insert religion here-, and I am too, I think he could represent me well." Ultimately, hopefully, a person will look at more than that. Overall no religion shouldn't be allowed to make decisions or laws, but religion will influence the decisions that our leaders do make. Religion (specifically Christianity) doesn't really have a chokehold on government the way people think. Citizens just happen to be electing people that often make decisions based on the morals and ideals their particular religion. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | forgotten.: Basically what i was trying to express was that most politicians are influenced by their morals which they draw from religion. Some people might be heavily influenced by it and some lighter influenced by it. Its really easy to see when you look at the things that are being hotly debated in politics, Stem cell research and cloning and same sex couples to name a few and religious convictions would have a definite impact on those topics. |
| blow Bleeding on the Floor Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 1137 | ^ you explain things so much better than I do. DX |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | skills ! ahahah |
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