Parents

I think having a dad around is important, they seriously dont get enough credit, i cant imagine life without mine. As for the hating parents thing, i guess it varys, i mean if you have parents that dont let you go to a party or two you shouldnt hate them, But if they are causing you pain, like making you feel bad about yourself (telling you your worthless, ulgy and will never look any better, ect.) or physically hurting you, its ok to hate them. and you're right if someone else was doing this, then it would be okay to hate them, but it is really looked down upon when your parents do it to you and you hate them for it

I agree that a male role model is necessary, but not necessarily a father. I'm a lesbian, my children won't have a father. But they'll have uncles and whatnot. Men that they can feel safe and comfortable talking to.

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I hate my stepmother. I absolutely hate my stepmother. She abused me and made my life a living hell. You can't control the way someone feels.1

^^i agree^^

but with a few changes.
i have never had good realations with my stepfather. he abused me and made my life a living hell. to the point where i left home (yea, at 17, dont lecture)
personally, i think that b/t me and my mom, i wouldve been just fine. i have never seen the reason for a father figure in MY life, but of course, different strokes for different...i really dont wanna type folks, but w/e.
i have never had a "male figure" in my life that i could look up to as a "father figure" any male guidance has come from older guy friends who i see as brothers.

and no you cant control other people's feelings. you can control how you handle it though. I hate my stepfather. im going to be compleatly honest. if he choked and died i wouldnt shed a single tear.
and i know this may be wrong but i hate my mother for allowing me to be put thru all of the hell that he gave me.
i should be allowed to hate. shouldnt i?
yes. i have a reason. a plausible reason. you cant hate your parents b/c they said no to purple streaks, or that bash your friend was having.
if your going to hate, at least make it neccesary.

see i agree that a father is needed, but look around, there arent that many rly rly rly great dads around, where im lookin any ways. i think that if males want credit, they have to step in and do something, not leave EVERYTHING to the mom.....

Fezzik:

^But does that go the same for mothers? Obviously it's far less common, but a mother could run off after giving birth and leave the father to raise the child.

That's almost exactly what happened to my husband when he was a baby.
Well, his parents split up and his father refused to just be a non-existant figure (ie sperm donor) in his son's life, and his mother decided that if she couldn't have 100% physical and legal custody, she didn't want anything to do with her child at all. (Or at least, that's what his father says. I've noticed he has a tendency to embellish his stories at times, and for all I know he's outright lying, but for the sake of argument, let's say this is how it happened.)
That breaks my heart.
My father-in-law had relationships with a few women over the years, until he met the woman he's with at the moment when my husband was 5 or 6. So he's pretty much always had a female influence in his life, although things were rough at first because (as kids tend to be) he was very territorial and upset about this woman moving in with his dad and impinging on their happy little twosome. I think that's where a lot of hating on step-parents comes from - the child is incredibly jealous because things have been fine and now some stragner is taking all their parents' attention off them, and the new step-parent is resentful of the child becuse they want all their partner's attention, and not have to share it with a stubborn, wilful child.

Anyway, my father-in-law always goes on about how happy my husband's childhood days were before he got together with his partner, but I'm not sure whether I agree.
My husband has some pretty severe anxiety and trust issues, and I can't help but feel that these stem from either unconsciously remembering his mother's abandonment, or being told all the time by his father (who means well, but isn't that great with tact) that his mother obviously didn't want him if she wasn't prepared to fight for custody of him. He gets very suspicious at times, and is one of the most insecure people I've ever met - at times it's endearing, but most of the time it's frustrating because I would never hurt him, but he just can't bring himself to believe it.

I wonder if that goes for all kids who come from broken homes, or just the ones where the child hasn't had any contact, not even a phone call or birthday card, from a parent since they were a toddler.
I personally don't have any experience with those kinds of problems, as my parents have been married for twenty-something years and show no signs of slowing down. I do believe that both a male and female role model (whether they be a parent or a prominent uncle/family friend/etc) is absolutely necessary in a child's life. I mean, boys need a man to look up to and imitate, just like girls need a woman to look up to and imitate, and learn behaviours that are typical to that gender.
I know of single women raising three kids, two girls and a boy, and they actually encourage the boy to play with dolls and wear makeup. I think that kind of behaviour is detrimental to a child - they should be learning behaviour that's typical of males, not females, and to do that they need a strong, positive male role model.

Cigarettes And Suicide:

I know of single women raising three kids, two girls and a boy, and they actually encourage the boy to play with dolls and wear makeup. I think that kind of behaviour is detrimental to a child - they should be learning behaviour that's typical of males, not females, and to do that they need a strong, positive male role model.

What's wrong with boys playing with dolls? What's wrong with letting them explore? That's a good thing in my opinion. They won't grow up with sexist thoughts and ideals of how people should act.

druscilla; in rags:

What's wrong with boys playing with dolls? What's wrong with letting them explore? That's a good thing in my opinion. They won't grow up with sexist thoughts and ideals of how people should act.

Fezzik:

^There's nothing wrong with a little boy playing with dolls if he wants to, but he shouldn't have to just because his mother doesn't want to be bothered buying separate toys or whatever the reason is.
Also he shouldn't just be introduced to dolls and makeup. He should be introduced to sports and...uh...boy stuff, too. Moderation is key. It's not that a boy can't grow up fine without a male influence; just that it's a lot more likely that he will if he has one.

I can see your points, and I agree on the whole exploring/anti-sexism views. But this little boy is, to put it bluntly, turning into a raving pansy - bear in mind he's only 8. He gets picked on for wearing nail polish to school, he refuses to interact with boys his age, male teachers and/or other male role models, and his mother thinks it's nothing short of absolutely adorable when he wants to wear a tutu and fairy wings (belonging to his sister) out shopping or on free dress days at school.
Also bear in mind that the mother in question refuses to let her girls play with trucks or Lego or 'boys' toys' because she wants them to 'grow up to be ladies, not bull-dykes'. Which goes to show her stupidity and irresponsibility in raising these children, but that's beside the point. Whether she's outright encouraging her son to be, well, effeminate, or not, I feel that the boy could be disadvantaged in so many ways if he doesn't have a positive male role model in his life. I just feel that children, whether they're boys or girls, should have a positive male and female role model in their life, and also that they should be encouraged to act out behaviours typical to their gender - I'll be dressing my little girl in dresses and pink, and buying her Barbie dolls to play with. When she is old enough, she can join a soccer team or something (hell, I was a bit of a tomboy when I was little), but I definitely won't be outright encouraging her to shun interaction with female peers, or doing something like letting her shave her head and wear boys' clothes - they make perfectly fine girl pants if she wants to wear jeans. I just think that there are real differences between males and females, and children should be taught to behave in accordance with stereotypical male or female roles, but also to have respect for the other gender - but at the same time, to know that they are very different.

Fezzik:

^But does that go the same for mothers? Obviously it's far less common, but a mother could run off after giving birth and leave the father to raise the child.

Yeah, it applies both ways I think.

As far as gender roles, I think that kids should be taught what they are, but it shouldn't be strictly enforced once the kid is old enough to be making decisions about clothes, etc. I think the fact that my parents allowed me to cut my hair short and wear boys clothes when I was in elementary school had both good and bad effects on me. For one, I'm absolutely terrified of relationships because I'm not terribly feminine and I'm afraid guys won't like that about me and won't consider me more than a buddy--sadly that's happened, and that sucks. On the other hand though, it's easier for me to be "just friends" with guys rather than feeling like I have to only hang out with girls, and also I'm less afraid to be myself because I don't really care anymore when people think I'm weird.

i think it depends on what gender you are for how important a male influence is.
i think it is definatly needed for boys and it can be detrimental for a boy to grow up without one. it is not just the case of the boy not growing up to be masculin, but also the fact of discipline. for example, as much as i love my boyfriend, he is a complete and utter rebel and doesn't listen to a thing his mother ( a very intelligent and brilliant woman who is raising him and his sister alone) says. if there had been a male influence in the house i think he would have a lot calmer person who is less likely to be so obnoxious and controversial to the point of being rude and agressive.

however i also think it is interesting in the way absent parents can be replaced. for example my father left when i was just 6 months old. from then on my mother and i have lived with my grandparents and they have taken a keep role in my upbringing. that was fine whilst i was a little child, but now i am growing up it is causing some tension. because their viws are so firmly set in the 1930's and have not changed to be compatible with todays society, we clash often and it can be quite hurtful and aggressive at times. this type of replacement for my father has obviously been good and bad, but has worsened with time. what does anyone else think about this type of thing, and how parents can be substituted?

With regards to 'replacing' father figures in children's lives... I'm not quite sure how I feel about women who have 'boyfriends' when they have young kids.
I mean, a few of my friends ended up pregnant to guys who were either really unsuitable parents, and kicked them to the curb, or their relationships just didn't work out either during the pregnancy or in the first few months of the baby's life.
Now these women live with their boyfriends, and regardless of whether these men are suitable role models or not, I don't approve of the children in question being raised to call them 'dad'. They're not their fathers, and to be honest, the men don't treat the kids as their own children. I feel that it's confusing for the child and could do some damage later on when they get old enough to start asking questions or wondering why they don't look anything like their 'father', or when kids in the playground start picking on them for it (and the sad fact is, snobby parents will gossip about it in front of their kids, and the kids take it back to school).
And besides that, there's the one girl who can't seem to make a relationship work for longer than a few months. Granted, it's her own fault as she cheats on her boyfriends then moves in with the guy she was cheating with, and the cycle continues, but I can't help but feel for her two-year-old daughter, who is constantly being told to call this guy or that 'dad', meanwhile she's never, ever met her real father (he left town when my friend got pregnant, which is probably a good thing because he's a complete and utter loser).

So, while we all agree that a positive male role model is important in kids' lives, especially in the case of boys, is it okay to raise a child to falsely believe somebody is their father? I mean, we're not talking about adoption here so that scenario is completely removed as far as I'm concerned. What I want to know is, how detrimental would it be to a child to be confused about who is their parent? What if the relationship breaks down and the partner wants nothing to do with the child that wasn't his to start with?
Should women try to separate their love lives from their parenting lives, using their own father or a relative or friend as a role model rather than a boyfriend, until the relationship is guaranteed to be a long-lasting thing (ie engagement)?

I think having a da is very important, but not vitally necessary. (For females)

My dad is in the Army and I see him maybe seven days per month. I can't say I grew up perfectly fine, healthy, and normal, but it's probably more than that that influenced that. So, I'm split, just like on everything else.