Drunk Driving.

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Heybaberiba Fabulous Killjoy Age: 46 Gender: Female Posts: 131	August 6th, 2008 at 01:23pm Mary Alice Brandon: Murder is defined as "the unlawful killing of another human". Therefore drunk-driving should come under the heading of murder. You might not be thinking about killing someone, but you could do. I agree. If you choose to get behind the wheels while drunk, you choose to put other people at risk. A car is as lethal as a gun. If you choose to go down town and just shoot around you at random, and happen to kill someone, would a "I was drunk" work as defence?
blow Bleeding on the Floor Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 1137	August 6th, 2008 at 01:45pm Heybaberiba: I agree. If you choose to get behind the wheels while drunk, you choose to put other people at risk. A car is as lethal as a gun. If you choose to go down town and just shoot around you at random, and happen to kill someone, would a "I was drunk" work as defence? It's not premeditated though. Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of another person. If you kill someone while drunk driving it is manslaughter because you did not do it on purpose, there is no malicious intent to kill. Obviously there should be severe consequences fro driving under the influence, and if they kill someone, but you can't give them the same punishment you would a serial killer.
Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614	August 7th, 2008 at 01:20am Eponine: It's not premeditated though. Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of another person. If you kill someone while drunk driving it is manslaughter because you did not do it on purpose, there is no malicious intent to kill. Obviously there should be severe consequences fro driving under the influence, and if they kill someone, but you can't give them the same punishment you would a serial killer. Agreed. I think some people here need to look at the difference between murder and manslaughter. If you're drunk and driving (with no intent to murder someone), and you hit a person, then it's done by accident, which is manslaughter.
VeexVenom Thinking Happy Thoughts Age: 31 Gender: Female Posts: 597	August 11th, 2008 at 06:46pm Mindfuck: Agreed. I think some people here need to look at the difference between murder and manslaughter. If you're drunk and driving (with no intent to murder someone), and you hit a person, then it's done by accident, which is manslaughter. [/size][/font] Of course someone driving drunk has no intention to murder someone. But they made the initial choice to put people's safety in danger. Taking responsibility for their actions would be the mature thing to do, whether they intended to hurt someone or not.
blow Bleeding on the Floor Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 1137	August 11th, 2008 at 08:44pm Victoria-Venom_MCR: Of course someone driving drunk has no intention to murder someone. But they made the initial choice to put people's safety in danger. Taking responsibility for their actions would be the mature thing to do, whether they intended to hurt someone or not. Well of course. If they do kill someone it is still considered manslaughter and the punishments are severe. I think the punishments for a DUI should be much more harsh. "A number of states require minimum penalties for a first-time offender, which might involve enrollment in an alcohol treatment program and a license suspension of a month or several months. A second-time offender might suffer a two-year license suspension or revocation of license. Some states impound the license plates or vehicles of habitual drunk drivers, and others revoke the licenses of habitual offenders." (from findlaw.com) I just don't think that is severe enough. Because you are putting lives at risk, even if you don't kill anyone, there should be a more severe punishment.
Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614	August 11th, 2008 at 09:36pm Victoria-Venom_MCR: Of course someone driving drunk has no intention to murder someone. But they made the initial choice to put people's safety in danger. Taking responsibility for their actions would be the mature thing to do, whether they intended to hurt someone or not. It's still accidental and I still don't see how some people can call it murder. Manslaughter is accidental murder. As Eponine states above, the penalties, depending on the circumstances, are usually still substantial.
Heybaberiba Fabulous Killjoy Age: 46 Gender: Female Posts: 131	September 13th, 2008 at 07:59pm Eponine: Heybaberiba: I agree. If you choose to get behind the wheels while drunk, you choose to put other people at risk. A car is as lethal as a gun. If you choose to go down town and just shoot around you at random, and happen to kill someone, would a "I was drunk" work as defence? It's not premeditated though. Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of another person. If you kill someone while drunk driving it is manslaughter because you did not do it on purpose, there is no malicious intent to kill. Obviously there should be severe consequences fro driving under the influence, and if they kill someone, but you can't give them the same punishment you would a serial killer. On the contrary, there is an intent. You are getting behind the wheels even though you know you can end up killing someone. You are getting behind the wheels "on purpose". Should it matter if you kill someone because they shagged your girlfriend and you are mad or because you where drunk and didn't wanted to pay a cab? I'll answer that one right away btw No, it doesn't matter, cause its a life taken either way.The purpose of punishment is to avoid bloodshed in a society. If people die in the same rate in the traffic, alot due to DUI's, as people are getting murdered. Is it not to be taken more seriously?
Faye Merci Salute You in Your Grave Age: - Gender: - Posts: 4473	September 14th, 2008 at 01:38am Heybaberiba: On the contrary, there is an intent. You are getting behind the wheels even though you know you can end up killing someone. Thing is, you don't. Many times people I know have driven home tipsy. It's not a law, you know, that as soon as you drink and drive you'll kill someone. Premeditated murder is "the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension". Drunk drivers do not drink and drive in order to kill and then evade arrest. They drive to get home. I don't support drinking and driving at all, but I don't think it constitutes as premeditated murder.
demolitionloversmway Thinking Happy Thoughts Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 562	September 14th, 2008 at 07:59pm i wouldnt call it murder cause their not driving to purposely kill themselfs or their friends but its verrry sad and people realy need to be more careful about the things they do and the affect it will have on others.
tabitha Bleeding on the Floor Age: 45 Gender: Female Posts: 1831	September 15th, 2008 at 09:34am Heybaberiba: On the contrary, there is an intent. You are getting behind the wheels even though you know you can end up killing someone. I agree with Faye Merci, because you do not get behind the wheel then joyride around until you find someone to crash into and kill. You get behind the wheel with the intention of going home (just as you do when you are sober) but you lack the capability to be able to operate the vehicle safely. If someone kills someone else in a car accident when they are sober, they are not charged with a crime, because they were not inebriated. But by driving drunk, you know that you are not able to handle the vehicle, which is why a drunk driving death is a manslaughter charge.
Heybaberiba Fabulous Killjoy Age: 46 Gender: Female Posts: 131	September 15th, 2008 at 03:00pm What I'm arguing is that it IS an intent. If you willingly operate a lethal vehicle when you know you cant fully control it, you PLAN to do it. Its just as bad as blowing up a car bomb, you might kill someone, you might not. You take the care home when you are drunk and cant fully operate a vehicle, you might loose control over it and run over a busstop with people, you might not. I know that we come from different cultures. Where I come from, owning a sawed off shotgun is conspiracy to commit crime since its just good for one thing. And its extremely rare that people carry guns. Yes, my country are prolly safe-addicts. But I can honestly say that I only know a few people who have ever driven while drunk, and they are all extremely ashamed about it. So yes, we have different opinions and I guess it cant be changed. But consider this; What will it take to make people stop driving while drunk? Saying that driving while drunk is the same as planning to harm/kill a person or saying "its ok as long as you don't kill anyone or get caught"
Faye Merci Salute You in Your Grave Age: - Gender: - Posts: 4473	September 15th, 2008 at 08:44pm Heybaberiba: What I'm arguing is that it IS an intent. If you willingly operate a lethal vehicle when you know you cant fully control it, you PLAN to do it. Its just as bad as blowing up a car bomb, you might kill someone, you might not. But it's not. Planning on blowing up a bomb is fully thinking "I am going to blow this up and kill myself and others." Driving drunk is "I want to go home". It's sometimes hard to tell how drunk you are. I can't know if you've ever been heavily drunk yourself, but it's not like black and white. It's not like you're suddenly incapable of doing anything. You can get most things done, it's just that it becomes a little harder. I'm not saying drunk driving is okay, but I'm saying that a drunk driver is not the same as a suicide bomber or a serial killer. There is NO intent to kill when you drunk drive. Assuming that because accidents happen, anything leading to that accident should be wrong is ignorant. You can't just say 'Well, you might crash, so you deserve to get treated like someone who intended to crash.' I could say that about normal drivers as well. Or pilots. Or conductors. Or any number of people. 'Well, your plane MIGHT fall out of the sky, so you might as well get the full punishment as if you meant for it to happen.' Drunk driving is never okay, but when a drunk driver kills or harms someone, they are not a murderer the same way Ted Bundy or Charles Manson was a murderer. To me, saying 'DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE' is just about as effective as saying 'don't worry about protection, just don't have sex'. It's just not gonna happen. Instead we should educate people. What if the message was 'Get a designated driver' rather than saying 'don't drink and drive'? I have a feeling if that was the message we told our kids about, we'd save many more. Drunk driving is going to happen, as long as cars and liquor exist. What we can do is educate people how to be safe while intoxicated and fairly punish those who ignore the warnings. But try them for murder? I think that's unfair.
nevergetmealive Joining The Black Parade Age: 31 Gender: Female Posts: 226	September 16th, 2008 at 04:53am ^^^^i agree, where i l;ive they teach to get a designated driver, but also doont drink and drive. In some states there is a law where in bars they give free lemonades(and other non-alcoholic beverages) for the designated driver while their with fiends.
tabitha Bleeding on the Floor Age: 45 Gender: Female Posts: 1831	September 16th, 2008 at 08:30am ^^ Actually, most bars will do that, it's not a law so much as just good business practice. I don't drink often and so usually volunteer to be the DD, and I've never had to pay for non-alcoholic drinks. Heybaberiba, I understand that you live outside of the US, and by your vehemence in your defense I wonder if someone you loved was hurt or killed by a drunk driver. If so, I truly do apologize. However, in the US, where I am from (and I believe Faye Merci is as well) drinking and driving is a misdemeanor charge and vehicular manslaughter (NOT premeditated murder) is a felony offense. Some states are moving for it to become second-degree murder because the driver knows that they are putting lives at risk, but there is not an INTENT TO KILL therefore it will never be a murder charge. I also believe that there is a huge difference between a car bomb and a drunk driver. A car bomb is placed with the intent to harm, maim, or kill, and I would even argue that it probably has a timed detonator or is strapped to a person who will detonate it at the time when it will cause the most damage. While a drunk driver is reckless, certainly, and may know that they are putting themselves and others in danger, they believe that they are enough in control to make it home safely. I am not saying that they should not pay for their crime, I am saying only that they be charged with their crime, not a biased opinion of the crime that makes it into more than what it was.
Heybaberiba Fabulous Killjoy Age: 46 Gender: Female Posts: 131	September 16th, 2008 at 03:06pm Faye Merci: I can't know if you've ever been heavily drunk yourself, but it's not like black and white. It's not like you're suddenly incapable of doing anything. You can get most things done, it's just that it becomes a little harder. I'm a 30 year old Swede, yes i have been drunk. BUT that doesn't matter, it IS black or white. If you drink, you don't drive. It's not a matter of "doing it a little bit less good than if you are sober". If you are affected by alcohol, your reactions are so affected that you are willingly, with an intent, putting other people at a greater risk than normally. A drunk driver is an idiot, not only for driving while under the influence but also in how he/she thinks and reacts. Considered how many bad drivers there is out there already, having some already bad driver (cause it usually are the bad drivers with poor judgement who drink and drive) adding alcohol to the equation makes me a uneasy with driving myself. Faye Merci: To me, saying 'DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE' is just about as effective as saying 'don't worry about protection, just don't have sex'. It's just not gonna happen. Instead we should educate people. Trying to educate an idiot is like putting lipstick on that pig. There is only one way to work against drunk driving and that is, as a society, saying "This is not ok". And it can be done, I'm living in a country where you can drink a beer or a glass of wine and that's it, everything else is drunk driving. But we still have some work to do. "Only" 495 people died in traffic accidents here last year. About 25% of those where by people driving under the influence. That's 123 lives that could have been saved. Cause bottom line, that's what it is. Not an argument on the internet of who knows best, but actual human lives. And the change starts with YOU saying "It's not OK, it IS intent, I'm not going to accept it".
Tallulah Admin Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 16777215	September 16th, 2008 at 05:15pm OK, i'm just throwing this in here... My fiance's father was killed by a drink driver when my boyf was 6. He was killed when he was crossing the road at a pedestrian crossing during a night out the celebrate his birthday with his friends. He was 31. He was a father of 6 children all under the age of 7. The driver of the car was prosecuted for driving without due care and attention (it was some years ago obviously) and he was given a 6 month jail sentence. He was out of prison within 4 months. As my boyf grew up he used to get on the same bus, to get to school, as the man who killed his father. While I agree that the driver was not driving with the intent to murder, the fact was he was responsible for that death and 4 months in jail will NEVER compensate for a father of 6 children being killed. That man was drunk, he drove a dangerous machine (a car is just that in the wrong hands) and he killed someone. Quite often drink driving is classed as Manslaughter in the UK and in my eyes, having lived with someone who lives the consequenses of a drink-drive-death daily, I think the sentences should be heavier. There is some information about "Vehicular Manslaughter" here. If you get behind the wheel of a car when you are intoxicated, you have to accept the responsibility that you could endanger lives and could end up being responsible for the death of another person. I know I am biased, but, drink driving is one of the most abhorrent, selfish crimes you can commit.
Person0001 Always Born a Crime Age: 43 Gender: Female Posts: 5099	September 19th, 2008 at 10:16am All drunk drivers should be handcuffed, fined, then taken out back and shot. JMHO Anyone who followed the tragic story of 7 year old Katie Flynn's death two years ago and still allows themselves to get behind the wheel impaired is not fit to walk the planet anyway in my eyes.
IceHog69 Bulletproof Heart Age: 31 Gender: - Posts: 25232	September 20th, 2008 at 10:57am Heybaberiba: On the contrary, there is an intent. You are getting behind the wheels even though you know you can end up killing someone. You are getting behind the wheels "on purpose". the intent is to kill someone. when you get into the car to drive home, the intent is to go somewhere, not kill someone. yes you are getting behing the wheel on purpose, but you aren't aiming to kill someone. intent would be if you were drunk, and someone goosed your partner, so you decided to kill them so you got into your car and chased them into an allyway where you ran them over. that would be intent. just driving home isn't intent it kill. i think the punishment for dui should be harsher, and i think that if you do kill someone, then being drunk shouldn't count either towards or against you on the killing count. you should be sentenced for drink driving seperatly, so you get two sentences, one for dui, and one for killing someone. sorry about the lack of capital letters, the sides of my keyboard have stopped working. [the far left, and right buttons, tab, caps lock, shift, ctrl, backspace, but ot enter]
Heybaberiba Fabulous Killjoy Age: 46 Gender: Female Posts: 131	September 20th, 2008 at 08:41pm ChipmunkOnKetamine: Heybaberiba: On the contrary, there is an intent. You are getting behind the wheels even though you know you can end up killing someone. You are getting behind the wheels "on purpose". "the intent is to kill someone. when you get into the car to drive home, the..." Well, I have already answered a quotation and answer quite like this one, so instead of repeating myself, i'll leave it with a simple "already answered that one"
teenagers. Jazz Hands Age: 29 Gender: Female Posts: 352	October 6th, 2008 at 04:08pm druck driving is a misdemeanor. you are intentionally trying to kill someone. even though its like, "welli was drunk so i didnt mean too." yeah, you did. once you pick up that one alcoholic beverage, you are intentinally trying to murder.

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