Feminists and women's rights in general

I think people should be treated equally, based on merit at whatever they do. I don't think a woman should be stopped from doing something she wants to just because she's a woman.

If, however, she actually isn't as good as a man at that thing, then I don't think she should get the job.

I think women do need to be treated with respect, though, and I don't care what people say -- in most instances (and note that I say most, since I know this isn't always the case), women are not as physically strong as men. So I tend to be a little wary of women being, say, firefighters. But if the woman is fit enough to do it, if she's physically strong enough... Then go for it.

But I really dislike people who say that a girl is "perpetuating stereotypes" because she likes to wear dresses or knit or cook or something. As Bad Businessman? said, why should a girl give up something she likes just so she won't keep "perpetuating stereotypes"? It's just not fair.

I do consider myself a kind of feminist -- I align with fourth-wave feminism, by and large -- but I think, in an ideal world, everything would be merit based. Entirely.

EDIT: Post removed for being inappropriate.
Tallulah

I believe that people should be treated equal.

Equality is having the same privileges, status, or rights as everybody else. Showing or having no variance in proportion, structure, or appearance.

I believe that equality is just and it's fair.

I think that girls should have the right to do whatever guys are aloud to do. I don't like how in some countries, women can't drive. And also, in the US others do discriminate girls. They say that they're bad drivers, some say that men have authority over women; control. Some say men are more powerful. People freak out when a woman runs for president also.

But...people get discriminating every day for many differrent things, this being one of them.

Girl's should have the same rights as men but what I don't like is how some women go overboard. Like...I'm sure you've heard the saying, "Girl's first" like when walking out the door or getting in line or whatever.

Where is the equality in that?

I don't think that guys should have to open the doors for girls, allow them to go first just because they're girls. Yeah sure. It's polite, I guess. But who made it okay, who made it so everybody thinks that it is the "polite" thing to do? Who knows?

So...i think to say that guys are of higher status than women isn't always true. Girl's can also appear to be of higher status than guys also.

Girls can discriminate guys and vise versa, Guy's can discriminate girls.

But that doesn't make it okay to do so cause either way, it's not just or fair.

This world can go on and on about "women's rights" but i think that in most countries girl's have the same rights as guys and guys have the same rights as girls, so i don't see why girl's are still complaining about this.

B y. T h e. S e a.:

This world can go on and on about "women's rights" but i think that in most countries girl's have the same rights as guys and guys have the same rights as girls, so i don't see why girl's are still complaining about this.

I disagree. Even though the notion of equality between women and men is widely accepted, it doesn't mean it is practiced. For example, here in Australia women are still on average paid a lower amount than men for doing the exact same job. And it's 2008. Do you think that's equality?

jack daniels.:

B y. T h e. S e a.:

This world can go on and on about "women's rights" but i think that in most countries girl's have the same rights as guys and guys have the same rights as girls, so i don't see why girl's are still complaining about this.

I disagree. Even though the notion of equality between women and men is widely accepted, it doesn't mean it is practiced. For example, here in Australia women are still on average paid a lower amount than men for doing the exact same job. And it's 2008. Do you think that's equality?

No, i definitely don't think it's equality if men are paid more than women. I agree with what you're saying.
All i'm trying to say is in some places women have more rights than in other places.
Like in the United States women can drive while in other countries they can't.
Which i think that girl's should have the right to drive it's just in those different countries, it's more than just "discriminating against women" It's also just what they believe in over there and also may be based on religion too.
Even though I don't agree with it, it's their religion and in some religions guys are supposedly more superior than women which i don't believe is true.
In the phrase you quoted me in i'm just saying that women here in America vs. women in other countries where they can't drive like in southwest Asia and stuff that women have more rights here than there.
I agree with you though and think that women should be paid the same as men. It's only fair.

jack daniels.:

^But you said in your original post, "I don't see why girls are still complaining about this". That's why I brought up the analogy of women not being paid equally.
If you agree with me, then surely you agree that women still have reason "to be complaining" about not being equal with men on all grounds...?
I'm talking about the Western culture, not any other culture.

Yes, i do agree with you.
Eh...I guess i must of not put those last lines correctly.
yes, i guess you do have a point of why women still have a reason "to complain"
It's just that I as an individual don't worry about my rights as a woman right now.
i don't like how other women are being treated though in other places outside of western culture. I don't think people should just focus on the western culture about women's rights because it's worse in other countries.
So basically i'm all for more women's rights obviously since I am a female and equality should happen
But I think this world with the whole "equality" thing won't work out unless people make it work out and fix it although it would be hard to do so since there are so many people with different beliefs and thoughts about things. =/

Mr.Armstrong:

i know, but she was asking for sex, and she got it
and when she went for trial she said it was rape -__-

When you say "sexually entertaining" what do you mean exactly?
Because a stripper can be entertaining people sexually, but it doesn't mean in any way shape or form that she / he is "asking for sex".

In my opinion, if they truly did rape her, then she has every right to claim she was raped.

And for your information, rape is NOT synonymous with sex. Rape is sexual assault, and if she didn't consent to having sex with the men, then it is NOT sex. It is rape.

Mr.Armstrong:

i know, but she was asking for sex, and she got it
and when she went for trial she said it was rape -__-

Was she actually asking for it? 0.0
Like physically asking someone for sex?

But if you mean that she was wearing revealing things etc. then she was not asking for it.
A girl is never asking for rape when she dresses like that. She is never to blame.
She doesn't wear those clothes thinking "I want to be raped tonight."

I recently heard of a book called "Female Chauvist Pigs"-it's basically discussing how more and more woman these days are wearing less clothing and participating in more sexual acts in the name of feminism. Though I haven't read the book, I disagree whit the concept. I'm not saying a woman shouldn't be able to strip if she wants to-thats her choice. But how exactly is it "liberating"? How is it making women equal to men? If anything, it's just pushing a more sexist steryotype that says women have to have sex appeal to be important or equal to men.

Think about it. How come a beautiful woman like Katie Couric is the standard for new anchors and television people for women, but men like Jay Leno can look the way they do and do want they want on tv? If women want to strip or whatever for fun, go ahead and do it because it's your choice. But your not helping,empowering,or liberating anyone by doing it.

Yes;Indeed;True:

I recently heard of a book called "Female Chauvist Pigs"-it's basically discussing how more and more woman these days are wearing less clothing and participating in more sexual acts in the name of feminism. Though I haven't read the book, I disagree whit the concept. I'm not saying a woman shouldn't be able to strip if she wants to-thats her choice. But how exactly is it "liberating"? How is it making women equal to men? If anything, it's just pushing a more sexist steryotype that says women have to have sex appeal to be important or equal to men.

I agree. And I don't think stripping could in anyway be liberating. Be able to express your sexuality and be sexy are liberating. I don't think stripping is. I think the whole sex business is just horrible for women. It's not only exploitive and degrading, it's down right dangerous. But anyway the whole idea that a woman would feel 'liberated' by being a sex object for a man is ridiculous.

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Think about it. How come a beautiful woman like Katie Couric is the standard for new anchors and television people for women, but men like Jay Leno can look the way they do and do want they want on tv? If women want to strip or whatever for fun, go ahead and do it because it's your choice. But your not helping,empowering,or liberating anyone by doing it.

So much of media is just complete bull when it comes to women. In every tv show and every broadcast the women always have to be extremely beautiful women with no flaws. It's ridiculous. Most girls don't looks like that.
I also think it's ridiculous that all the late night shows are hosted by men. I really wish there was one hosted by a woman.

*prepares to be crucified*

I'm what I suppose you would call an anti-feminist. I'm a woman. A woman who likes the fact that a bunch of bra-burning, hot-headed, tantrum-throwing women fought to win me a few rights back in the day.

However, that doesn't mean that I'm actually interested, or believe in doing any of that stuff.
I couldn't care less whether I was able to vote or not. I can, but I don't. And I'm Australian, which means it's compulsory. Pah. I know there's not a politician out there worth voting for, so I don't bother.
I'm not interested in a career. At all. Ever since I was a kid, my sole ambition in life was to marry a man, raise a few kids, and bake lots of cookies, cakes and roast dinners with all the trimmings. Apron and white gloves optional.
I'd even go so far as to say that I don't believe in having a career AND children. You can't have it all, ladies. Why do you think women get paid less than men? Because there's a chance that women of child-bearing age will leave their job to have kids (whether permanently or temporarily). Men don't have that option, so they get paid for their loyalty to the company. And you can't go saying, 'Well just ask women whether they intend on having kids or not in the future' because you can guarantee every single one of them will say 'No way, I hate kids and I want a promotion next year!!', get their equal pay, then promptly get knocked up.

I really, really despise women who take a few weeks off from work to have a baby, then just dump it in daycare and go back to work. Nobody is that poor, that they HAVE to put a newborn in an under-staffed, over-crowded facility in order to pay their mortgage. If they do, then they need to downgrade their house to something more modest.
I don't believe in having kids and a high-powered career. You can have one or the other, not both. And if you DO want/have both, then that was your dumb choice, so whatever hardships you suffer because of it, suck it up and bloody well keep your mouth shut, because nobody around you really gives a rats' about it. Except maybe the Feminazis, who are half brain-dead anyway (seriously, we get it - you don't like men. Unfortunately, they're everywhere, so unless you want to move to your own country where men don't exist, and therefore you don't procreate, much the better for everyone.)

I guess I'm a bit of a male chauvinist. But I believe women, if they choose to have kids, should be at home, raising them, cleaning the house, cooking dinner. I don't think there's anything wrong with being a stereotypical housewife and mother, if that's what makes you happy. And that's what makes me happy. I love my husband, I appreciate that he works 6 days a week to pay the bills I run up. So I don't have a problem with making his life a little easier when he gets home at the end of the day.

If anything, I think it's MEN who deserve more rights. In this day and age, where fathers are 'allowed' to be more involved with their kids, rather than just patting them on the heads when they get home from work, and maybe taking them to the park on Sundays, I think it's really unfair that men aren't entitled to paternity leave in most jobs. When our daughter was born, my husband wanted to take a couple of weeks off to help me around the house and just generally bond with and marvel at the new little creature we'd brought home from the hospital. Unfortunately, he had to choose between taking his holiday leave (which meant when his workplace shut down for two weeks over Christmas, he wouldn't get paid and we'd be flat broke for the most expensive fortnight of the year), or taking unpaid leave (which meant he'd be at home, but we might get the phone cut off, or not be able to afford to eat). He took the unpaid leave, and we made it, but I don't think it's fair that he had to make that choice, when women are entitled to maternity leave for up to 12 months.
In addition, I think men as parents are often left out in the cold. When my husband was a kid, he was raised by his father, and back in those days there was no such thing as a single father. Single mothers were, of course, more common than not, but because nobody recognised that a man could raise a child by himself, there was no such thing as single parent pension for men - only women. Therefore, my husband and his dad were either dirt poor, or he was left with babysitters all day so that his dad could go out and earn just enough to buy some food and pay the sitter.

I appreciate that women campaigned so hard in the 60's and 70's to gain rights that women deserve, but what about men? Yeah, whatever, they get a decent pay and everything's a 'boy's club'. But what about the instances where men are the disadvantaged ones, whether it be because Feminazis' campaigning has changed attitudes so much that women and minority groups are the only people considered in certain things, or because everybody thinks that something like a 'stay-at-home Dad' or something doesn't exist, so there is no funding, no support, no help for men in need?
It's like domestic violence, sexual assault, etc. Men are commonly victims too, just as much as women, if not more, but when do you ever hear of anybody getting together to campaign for better treatment of men? Or to raise awareness to protect men against things like sexual assault? You don't, and I think that's stupid.

Basically, men and women are equal. One is not superior to the other. In my opinion, feminism has gone WAY too far in pushing a point. Now, when one hears the term 'feminist', they think of, as another poster said, 'A self-righteous lesbian telling men they're sexist, discriminatory pigs because they had the misfortune to be born with a penis'.
I totally agree. Some feminists need to back the f*** up and think about what they're doing to their own cause - they're hurting it, not helping.

Cigarettes And Suicide:

Except maybe the Feminazis, who are half brain-dead anyway (seriously, we get it - you don't like men. Unfortunately, they're everywhere, so unless you want to move to your own country where men don't exist, and therefore you don't procreate, much the better for everyone.)

Oh, come on now. I was actually agreeing with you up to that ^ point.

First of all, what kind of feminist do you mean when you use the completely overused and ridiculous "feminazi"? Radical feminists? Feminists in general?

Feminists do not hate men. I'm a feminist and I love men. I'm not in a relationship at the moment, but I sure as hell am not single because I enjoy being a "feminazi".

If any woman hates men in general, she has obviously been badly burned by one, or at least had a bad experience with a man, or men. You don't have to be a feminist to hate men, and just because one may be a feminist it doesn't mean one hates men.

There are women out there who are feminists and do seem to hate men though. But I find these women to be quite rare, actually.

I know and have spoken to quite a few more radical feminists because I did a Women's Studies elective last year for Uni (there were quite a few feminists doing the course), and not one of them ever claimed to hate men or be against men in general. If you ask a serious feminist why they believe what they believe when it comes to women's rights, they are not likely to answer with "well, because I hate men, that's why." They are more likely to answer that they don't believe or support in the patriarchal system that has oppressed women for centuries on legal, economic, social, sexual and educational grounds and / or institutions. Well, that's what I would answer anyway (or something to that effect).

And FYI, I'm not a radical feminist. I'm a liberal feminist. Liberal feminism, admittedly, is not what one would consider 'hardcore' feminism, where feminist go around making brash statements and publicity stunts etc. The type of feminism I follow doesn't just believe in equality for women, but for men as well. Equality between everyone. Not just one sex or gender. We believe more in law reform to allow equality, not complete social upheaval (which is what more radical feminists believe).

You can be anti-feminist all you want, I'm not one to stop you. But, if I were in your position, I would educate myself more on what I'm talking about before I make brash claims such as "feminazis are half brain dead". Being a feminist, I am quite offended.

Cigarettes And Suicide:

Now, when one hears the term 'feminist', they think of, as another poster said, 'A self-righteous lesbian telling men they're sexist, discriminatory pigs because they had the misfortune to be born with a penis'.
I totally agree.

How dare you categorise feminists like that. How dare you. I know you didn't say that yourself, but from what I can gather you're agreeing with that stereotype - as if to say it were completely true.
I am actually on the verge of tears reading that, because I feel like people such as yourself are being unnecessarily cruel by agreeing to that.

Again, educate yourself on what feminism today actually is - and actually understand that there are different types of feminism. Not every feminist is radical in their beliefs. Not every feminist believes the same thing.