Feminists and women's rights in general

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Chantal Bleeding on the Floor Age: 29 Gender: Female Posts: 1015	September 27th, 2008 at 10:43pm Cigarettes And Suicide: - whereas men can either screw around or not, nobody really cares what they do with their genitalia. Agreed. It's also a lot of the time a double standard. Like men are encouraged to be sexual, especially if your a teenage male. Women, if are very sexual, are often labeled as a slut-don't get me started that the term slut even exists at all. I think maybe girls who participate in sexual acts, like what I was talking about above, believe they are doing it in the name of feminism because they are helping liberate women and let them be sexual without being diminished to a slut, but unfortunately it has quite the opposite affect, as I stated above.
Cigarettes And Suicide Bleeding on the Floor Age: 37 Gender: Female Posts: 1725	September 27th, 2008 at 11:34pm ^ I'm with you on that one. I'm sort of on the fence about the whole concept of women acting in a highly sexualised manner, and calling it 'empowering' or 'liberating'. Maybe in their minds, but gosh they must have some good self-esteem to not care that everyone around them is thinking 'skank' behind their backs. I think the concept of exploring/expressing your sexuality, and being 'sexy' are two different things. And besides that, why is it that men don't have any pressure on them to be considered 'sexy' or whatever by women? Women are constantly objectified and reduced to the level of a piece of meat by certain groups of men, but you very rarely ever see women carrying on like that about blokes.
Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614	September 28th, 2008 at 12:12am Cigarettes And Suicide: And besides that, why is it that men don't have any pressure on them to be considered 'sexy' or whatever by women? Women are constantly objectified and reduced to the level of a piece of meat by certain groups of men, but you very rarely ever see women carrying on like that about blokes. I personally think this has to do with traditional mating roles ingrained in men and women. Traditionally, men were seen as the "chasers" - the ones who went after the woman, the ones who did the pursuing. Women are traditionally more passive when it comes to things like that (and I stress the word 'traditionally' - that stereotype doesn't really sit well with girls of my generation). In my opinion, I think that is why women are objectified but men don't seem to be. Well, I think that's one of the reasons anyway. Also, women are traditionally less sexually powerful than men. Some people still don't seem to think that overt sexuality is very feminine, hence why you don't tend to hear about women sexually vilifying men (not often, anyway).
Heybaberiba Fabulous Killjoy Age: 46 Gender: Female Posts: 131	September 28th, 2008 at 08:31am psychochip: Was that really necessary? Especially since everyone else involved had already talked it over and had come to an accord? We have?? I answered her answer to me, and didn't read the discussion you two had going. psychochip: Donna had already pointed it out that she was talking about Australia, where she lives and therefore where she is affected by the lack of paternity leave. While I think it's amazing that your country has equal leave, most countries don't. Men get a bare minimum if any. It's not like we can all pack up and move to Sweden to have our kids. We have to make do with what our laws provide. And I pointed out that not everyone have such bad conditions (and therefore you cant apply your own countries conditions to other women in other situations.) psychochip: The olive branch was extended and accepted. Let's please go back to the subject at hand. The question about maternity leave is pretty spot on feminism and womens rights. I am literary dumbfounded about not more people reacting to the fact that someone in this discussion calls women with little money, who are forced back into work directly after giving birth, "bad mothers". As for "olivbranch" it was not extended to me, and I think we have far too different opinions to ever reach a status quo, hence my "lets agree to disagree".
tabitha Bleeding on the Floor Age: 45 Gender: Female Posts: 1831	September 28th, 2008 at 11:31am ^^ Listen, tempers have flared but now that everyone has had a chance to step back and interpret what has been said, everyone now agrees to disagree. Your comment about "feeling dumber" seemed like you were throwing gas back on the fire. I don't feel it was called for in any situation. Donna realized what she had said and apologized for making the generalization. And everyone had moved on. The question of being a "bad mother" for putting a child in daycare was also addressed, dissected, and left with people saying that while most mothers would prefer to stay at home, there are some who, for whatever reason, can not. And it was determined that that need does not make a bad mother. Maybe you are only reading the posts you want, and skipping the others where the majority of the arguments were contained, talked over, and when necessary, apologies were made. I just didn't think it was fair that you continued to jump on Donna after she had already publicly apologized for the way her words were interpreted.
Cigarettes And Suicide Bleeding on the Floor Age: 37 Gender: Female Posts: 1725	September 28th, 2008 at 06:53pm Heybaberiba: And I pointed out that not everyone have such bad conditions (and therefore you cant apply your own countries conditions to other women in other situations.) The question about maternity leave is pretty spot on feminism and womens rights. I am literary dumbfounded about not more people reacting to the fact that someone in this discussion calls women with little money, who are forced back into work directly after giving birth, "bad mothers". 1. CONGRATULATIONS! The country where you live has fantastic maternity and paternity leave allowances - paid even! SO WHY IN HELL WOULD YOU NOT TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE OF THAT? That's what I was trying to say - people where I live have a sucky time of it because a lot of women have no choice but to go back to work, and yet here you are, stating that even though you get PAID maternity allowance (which, for now, Australians can only DREAM OF), YOU WOULD CHOOSE NOT TO TAKE IT AND GO STRAIGHT BACK TO WORK? Yes, THAT in my opinion is irresponsible parenting. If you HAVE the opportunity, then fricking TAKE IT, instead of just bleating about how I can't apply my country's maternity leave laws to YOUR country's maternity leave laws, and saying I'm a horrible person because I believe that IF YOU HAVE THE MEANS TO BE AT HOME WITH YOUR KIDS, YOU SHOULD BE, FOR THEIR SAKE AND NOT YOUR OWN GREED OR SELF-IMAGE. 2. I never said that women with little money to spare are 'bad mothers'. Shit, when I fell pregnant my husband and I were broke as all get out. But despite that, we still made the decision that one of us would stay at home as long as the other was earning enough to pay our rent and grocery bills. I'm saying that people like you, who have fantastic access to parental leave and would have no impediments to being a stay-at-home parent, who still choose to go straight back to work after having a child, should maybe think about what your priorities are before having kids. Maybe you didn't get the memo about children not being toys or the latest fashion accessories. 3. We've already covered this. There are the women who have to go back to work straight after having a baby because they aren't entitled to maternity leave, and their husbands don't earn enough to pay the bills. Those women, I sympathise with and feel bad for. Then there are the women who go back to work straight after having a baby because they feel some ridiculous need to either 'prove themselves' to the boss (ie 'Hey look at me! I just had a kid and I'm right back in here slaving my arse off like nothing ever happened - promote me!!'), or because they're the type of women whose greed and over-inflated sense of self-worth means they can't go without their 6-figure salary for even a few months - God forbid they miss out on the latest pair of Louboutins! And it's THOSE people that are arseholes. Anyway, Your posts are starting to not make sense to me. All I'm trying to say is, you are a lucky, lucky woman and you have access to amazing maternity leave entitlements - why in your right might would you choose to ignore what you're entitled to, and go straight back to work if you can afford to stay at home? And AGAIN, I'm not saying YOU specifically. I'm saying either you or your husband, whatever. But if ONE OF YOU can afford to stay at home to look after children, then I think that's what you should do. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it. But that's my opinion, period.
Heybaberiba Fabulous Killjoy Age: 46 Gender: Female Posts: 131	September 29th, 2008 at 11:37am psychochip: ^^ Listen, tempers have flared but now that everyone has had a chance to step back and interpret what has been said, everyone now agrees to disagree. Your comment about "feeling dumber" seemed like you were throwing gas back on the fire. I don't feel it was called for in any situation. Donna realized what she had said and apologized for making the generalization. And everyone had moved on. The question of being a "bad mother" for putting a child in daycare was also addressed, dissected, and left with people saying that while most mothers would prefer to stay at home, there are some who, for whatever reason, can not. And it was determined that that need does not make a bad mother. Maybe you are only reading the posts you want, and skipping the others where the majority of the arguments were contained, talked over, and when necessary, apologies were made. I just didn't think it was fair that you continued to jump on Donna after she had already publicly apologized for the way her words were interpreted. Well, feeling dumbER doesnt necessary argue that I would be the sharpest tool in the shed... But, no, I only paid attention to the discussion I had going on with Cigarettes And Suicide, I did not read the rest, as I have said to you before. Feels like you are the one who are trying to add fuel to the fire here. I agree to disagree and have moved on from that. Now, lets stop repeating ourselves.
Heybaberiba Fabulous Killjoy Age: 46 Gender: Female Posts: 131	September 29th, 2008 at 11:50am Cigarettes And Suicide: ... We are going to split our leave 50-50. But, that is not my point. But since our discussion have gotten unnecessary heated, lets agree to disagree and leave it at that. Cheers!
IceHog69 Bulletproof Heart Age: 31 Gender: - Posts: 25232	September 29th, 2008 at 01:34pm I think feminism is great, but it has gotten a bad reputation, because of so many women who take it too far. Feminism should be about treating men and women as equals, which I think is important, but a lot of women call them selves feminists, when really they just think that they are better than men. Some 'feminists' think that women are the better sex, and that men should just hit the road, which in my opinion is just as bad as thinking that men are better. Feminism as in trying to improve women's rights is really good, because in so many places, women are not treated as equals to men. I think that women should have the same access to jobs, and promotions. However I think that men in some places should be also treated as equals. Maternity leave is [approximatly] 9 months paid leave, whilst paternity leave is 2 weeks unpaid leave. Whilst I acknowledge that women need that extra time off, men should be entitled to at least paid leave. I think that men and women are equal, and therefore should be treated as such. I know that it is hard, when women have children (pregancy, infancy, not just having a family) because they should be entitled to time off, and so it can be hard getting a job, if you have to search for a replacement, but fathers should also face these difficulties as they should be allowed to spend time with their young family.
rockpapersuzi. Always Born a Crime Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 6503	February 25th, 2009 at 12:59am I was just thinking about this topic today in history class when my teacher was talking about women during the Scientific Revolution in Europe. A notion popped in my head: "How and when exactly did the concept of female inferiority start?" Yes, I thought of various religious books and how many of them state that woman was created for man as a companion, but I also considered the fact that Holy Books are written by the hand of man, inspired by God. It would be quite rare that there would be ancient documents written by women due to the fact that for much of history women were denied education. It would be quite easy for a male back then to twist religion to his favor. Could man and woman have come to be / been created simultaneously? Could the "birth order" of sex be fabricated by early males to gain superiority? Thoughts / comments? Let me know what you think!
John St. John Shotgun Sinner Age: 31 Gender: Male Posts: 7145	February 25th, 2009 at 11:48am ^^ I think that in the bible eve was made using adam's rib especially fro adam, maybe thats were it comes from?
rockpapersuzi. Always Born a Crime Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 6503	February 26th, 2009 at 10:47pm ^^Yes, it does say that in the Bible. (And thanks for the input. :] ) What I'm trying to get at is the idea that maybe the men fabricated the whole order of creation / rib story to secure male superiority in society. Don't get me wrong...I have nothing against religions. In fact I'm quite a faithful Christian. I do believe humans and this whole universe was created by God, but I think the story is a bit...tainted, if you will. It's just that there have been proven to be many inaccuracies in ancient writings that I have to think long and hard about what I agree with. Cause I personally don't believe that sexual inferiority was created by God. It was created by man and spread in the name of God. Humans are imperfect and constantly trying to find ways to make themselves better. Men may have taken this chance to think up some religious reason why they are better than women. Cause back then (especially in the Middle East) it's one thing if you disobey your husband...but no one would ever think of disobeying God. But hey, it's just a theory. :]
ilovekevinjonas Banned Age: - Gender: - Posts: 9	April 8th, 2009 at 11:37am i hate women men rule you all
Daft Fabulous Killjoy Age: 29 Gender: Male Posts: 157	April 18th, 2009 at 05:04pm Jonas, dont be such a fucking troll.
Tallulah Admin Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 16777215	April 19th, 2009 at 04:54pm ^They were banned 10 days ago. Don't worry about it.
K.K. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 28 Gender: Female Posts: 1787	April 21st, 2009 at 07:29am heartquakes.: Yes, I thought of various religious books and how many of them state that woman was created for man as a companion, but I also considered the fact that Holy Books are written by the hand of man, inspired by God. That's not entirely right. I mean the 'inspired' part. The Holy Book of the muslims, the Quran is supposed to be written by the hand of man, but totally under God's command. Quote It's just that there have been proven to be many inaccuracies in ancient writings that I have to think long and hard about what I agree with. Yeah. I read that book of Karen Armstrong- uh okay- forgot the title- but in it she mentoins that quiet a lot. - The 'inaccuracies' etc. /sry if this is off the topic...

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