Paedophilia

questionable content:

Personally, I believe that even if said person did sexually abuse a minor, however horrific that is, they still should not be shot or tattooed; instead they should be imprisoned and rehabilitated.

They CAN'T be rehabilitated, that's the point! And I wonder how much of a champion for these people you would be if a child you loved had been victimized? And I also find your concentration camp analogy rather offensive - do you have any idea what truly went on there?

Thats not fair Deb, I don't think that "Questionable Content" is championing paedophiles, she is simply stating that she doesnt think that returning to punishment methods of the dark ages is the answer. I personally agree, tattooing and shooting is not the answer either. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.

As for the comparison to concentration camps, I think people are purposely missing the point of what she wrote. She actually said the treatment suggested (ie: tattooing and shooting) is just as barbaric as the treatment dished out to prisoners in c-camps. There is equal amount of research that supports both sides of the arguement, true, many paedophiles have failed with rehabilitation, but many have also gone on to never commit a crime again in the future. Therefore the rehabilitation has in some cases been successful.

If someone has not committed a crime (which was what she was saying) how can we police people's thoughts and therefore tattoo and shoot all people who harbour evil or sadistic thoughts? We can't.

Paedophillia is the most abhorrent of crimes but I do not think that death by firing squad or public humiliation by inflicting tattoos is the answer.

Deb:

They CAN'T be rehabilitated, that's the point! And I wonder how much of a champion for these people you would be if a child you loved had been victimized? And I also find your concentration camp analogy rather offensive - do you have any idea what truly went on there?

I do think convicted pedophiles can be rehabilitated. Prison is harsh, and people can change. But even if they do not, they are kept apart from the children they abused because they are in prison.
I'm studying the Holocaust in school, and we had a speaker the other day who spoke about his experience in a ghetto, and later in Auschwitz, a concentration camp. While just hearing about it is nothing like actually experiencing it, I think Tallulah said it best: "Two wrongs don't make a right", and especially when you punish people who have not committed a crime (adults sexually attracted to children, but who have not acted on that)

Essentially, this discussion is segmented into those who view this as a mental health issue or purely a criminal/predator issue. You appear to be focused on individuals who have not committed the act, but admit they have the propensity to do so. Your concern is the branding of individuals because of what you deem to be a mental health issue.

Further, the recidivism rate of sex offenders who have completed treatment is based on the actual program. Most studies also divide the offenders into groups based on their offense. However, generally and historically, the rate remains high across the board.

Clearly, you are quite intelligent however as you noted your experience is limited to what you've read. I would direct you to the film "Good Will Hunting." In particular, the "duck pond" scene.

"So if I asked you about art, you'd probably give me the skinny on every art book ever written. Michelangelo, you know a lot about him. Life's work, political aspirations, him and the pope, sexual orientations, the whole works, right? But I'll bet you can't tell me what it smells like in the Sistine Chapel. You've never actually stood there and looked up at that beautiful ceiling; seen that."

Your points are well thought, but unfortunately they do not depict the real world experience. I hope you will continue to study and explore these issues. I would like to speak with you after you have worked with children who've suffered such abuse or after you've had children. It would be interesting to see if your opinions changed.

Livvie, I did not purposely miss the point of her comparison. I understood what she was trying to say, but I was highly offended by it and did not believe it was appropriate.

Jules xoxo.

I have worked with children who have been victims of paedophiles, including a 11 year old girl who was ritually raped and abused by her grandfather. However, I still believe that no matter how horrific a crime is we should never return to medieval style punishment. Lock people up and throw away the key by all means (i mean that in a metaphorical sense, not literally) but we shouldn't be tattooing and shooting people. If we do, we may as well cut hands off thieves and resort to public floggings.

That's the point i'm trying to make here, that's all. Please don't anyone for a second think I in any way don't detest paedophiles, because I do, I just don't agree with corporal or capital punishment.

^ that's a sensible way of putting it I think.

I have a question though, it may sound silly.

When a peodophile is convicted, are they put away in a prison, or say a mental hospital?

You all make really good points, and I'm really sorry to everyone my Holocaust analogy offended, perhaps a better analogy is the one Tallulah suggested, about medieval punishment.
Jules, I'll watch that sometime, it seems like a very interesting movie.
John, I think it depends on the case, but most go to prison? I'm not sure though.

Tallulah; Schechter:

I still believe that no matter how horrific a crime is we should never return to medieval style punishment. Lock people up and throw away the key by all means (i mean that in a metaphorical sense, not literally) but we shouldn't be tattooing and shooting people. If we do, we may as well cut hands off thieves and resort to public floggings.

Livvie, duly noted, however, I was not the person who suggested the branding or shooting (although to be very honest, I wouldn't exactly cry for the pedophile to whom this happened.) I did find the Holocaust comparison to be brutally offensive, and while I understand what you are saying, I cannot agree with it. What happened to the Jews during that War goes way beyond branding and shooting, and those people had also done NOTHING wrong (and many of them were children.)

I appreciate your apology, Questionable Content. I'm glad that you realized what it was that we were objecting to there I do disagree that many pedophiles have been successfully rehabilitated. I would like to see those numbers. I dealt with a probation officer once regarding a convicted offender who had moved across the street from us (supposedly rehabilitated, although it sure didn't stop him from putting his hand on his eleven year old neighbor's leg not even three months later.) That P.O. felt very strongly that people such as he could not be rehabilitated, and she sure would know.

I'm not trying to be unfair, Livvie, I understand that Questionable Content wasn't per se championing pedophiles, however, it just raises the hairs on my arms whenever I find myself debating the plight of some "poor, abused" perpetrator over that of the innocent victims. The reality is that these people don't stay locked up forever (here in the U.S., it's quite common to see them released within a couple of years after murdering some poor child. Less than a decade for committing pre-meditated murder!

I understand that you and Questionable Content are anti-capital punishment, and yes, I know that everyone has very personal positions on that subject. I do admit that when it comes to cases like this, I'm pro. The way I see it: if a wild animal mauls someone, you put it down, right? To me, people who commit unisolated and unwarranted acts of violence against others are wild animals. I don't really see the difference; in fact, to me, they're worse, because at least it can be argued that the animal didn't know any better. I know not everyone sees it that way, and that's fine, but the real problem to me is that the punishment never seems to befit the crime in these cases.

Livvie, having worked with these children, you know better than anyone the lasting effects that such abuse can have on a soul, and the stats indicate that pedophiles are almost always victims themselves. From what I've seen, once a person reaches the point of acting out, there tends to be no return to normalcy for them; they're permanently damaged goods. What happens to us as children does shape us for life; ask any adult: even the most well-adjusted of us can point to at least one incident that traumatized us and changed how we relate to others to this day.