The Death Sentence.
| Author | Message |
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| Mindfuck Always Born a Crime  Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614 | Migatron.: I know, I was also talking about the Western society. I also live in Australia. The way you originally stated it sounded like it was from a point of view that assumed that execution of criminals was used as a way to control murderous maniacs. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor  Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | sorry if it came off the wrong way |
| Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614 | EDIT - sorry, i wrote all of the stuff below before i saw ^^that post you made. You don't have to apologise btw. Migatron.: Theoretically, if they are in jail for life then they wouldn't have any oppurtunity to commit more crimes. Migatron.: I realise that you are probably just referring to Western society, but when talking about the death sentence you have to think of it from other culture's points of view, because not everyone on here is going to come from your society. In some Middle Eastern societies for example, stoning a person to death is a perfectly acceptable way to execute someone, depending on the crime of course. Does that sound humane? No. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | No actually once you are incarserated theres plenty of opportunities to harm people, its not hard to make a shank (knife) out of a toothbrush and youll be surprised at the level of violence that goes on in high security prisons in the us. stoning in the middle east is a cultural practice. it may sound inhumane from your point of view but if you like you suggested changed your point of view and looked at it from their perspective maybe you wouldnt frown on it so much . |
| Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614 | ^Point taken. But I still do not find stoning acceptable. I find it horrific. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | neither do ii. it doesnt serve the same practice as conventional western ideals law does. rather than protect society it serves the individual by restoring honor. |
| Pansy Wolf Fabulous Killjoy  Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 171 | We had a whole day about the death penalty at school. And everyone voted for it apart from me, well most people did. I'm not going to go into why i don't think it's right but seriously. Taking someones life, is seen to be teh easy way out. And people do change I hope they don't bring it to England. I dunno i just don't like the idea. I watched the film green mile and felt so sorry for the bloke with the mouse mr bojangles. Anyone who hasn't seen teh film will think im a complete nut  |
| Rexperience Bleeding on the Floor  Age: 32 Gender: Male Posts: 1052 | Migatron: The only problem I see is violence, and yes, it is all around us which is why I disapprove of violence on principle. It gets very convoluted very quickly when you start to fill in loop holes and exceptions. I understand your "No Revenge" point, but I don't agree. I think your putting to much power in the government. Killing in general is whats wrong, wouldn't it be great if we could all stop? Capital punishment just keeps the cycle moving, it is not a lasting solution. In your philosophy you are trying to remove (understandably)unwanted habits through the means of the same habits! I'm not seein the logic... Migatron: I see where you are getting to, but I fear where this path would take us. Yes we try to keep an unbiased law today, but we create, control and enforce it. The law now is brought about by our actions and morals. I doubt a true "faceless" law will ever exist and the idea does not bring me much comfort. Migatron: Sorry dude, your right. I wasn't trying to take anything out of context, but I have always been inspired by such intellectuals as above and thought I'd share their words. At least its not completely irrelevant. drowning..in..misery: I do not believe you to be a bad person, but your statement scares the Hell outta me. I believe it is derived of confusion and ignorance. Why create MORE fear? Fear is the biggest problem we have as a race. It is the cause of all our problems. Letting the government try and keep the public in line through fear only adds to the vicious downward spiral of violence. We need to start thinking about truth and understanding, those are the real tools we have to create a better society NOT needles and bolts of electricity. ~ Rex |
| Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614 | KingRex: I agree, but also in relation to drowning..in..misery's post - how exactly would bringing back the death penalty stop people from committing crimes? They have the death penalty in most of the USA, and they still have people committing crimes everyday. Probably more so than in countries that don't have the death penalty. So you can just say that the death penalty is the one thing that is going to stop people committing crimes, because it isn't. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | KingRex: i am in no way putting any power in the government firstly The Law and the Government are two completely different institutions even though the government dictates the functions of the law , the law is not controlled by the government it is a different instition and cannot be disrupted by the government as the law has discretionary powers. what im saying is there is a devision of power between the law (courts ect) The government (senates,house of reps) and the Executive powers ( Presidents Primeministers ect), you obviously havnt done your homework enough to understand that the law and government are different. maybe your not seeing the logic because your not looking through the right logic. you look at this whole utopian like society that we clearly do not live in. people die thats the honest to god truth. and people do alot to generally screw up society weather it be bomb buildings kill and rape people and so on. you have to look at it from a different light. when society can no longer afford to have them there weather it be incarcerated or free when society realises that there is no chance in hell for rehabilitation what else is there to do ?. burden the tax paying citizen ? wheres the justice in that ? why should society have to pay for that why should society have to suffer further ?. yes we do create the law .. how else would they be made ? they don't come out of a hat where else would the law come from. you should remember that the law has always and will always be dictated by societies current morals and current actions. where else should they come from ? a hat like mentioned before ?. maybe you didnt fully grasp the idea of faceless law like i wanted you to. i said faceless in the sense where it doesn't have a human touch. it functions on fact not feeling. by faceless i also meant that its a very impersonal its not something that has a face. the juries are randomly picked and so is the judge. its a faceless process. techno cocaine.: Capitol punishment is reserved for people who commit the worst crimes. and it serves as a deterrence for people looking to commit massive heinous crimes. yes people do commit crimes in the usa every day but think well if people are committing crimes in the us the punishments must not be working. well that comes down to one simple simple simple answer Criminals who commit crimes assume they will never be caught that is a fact. and rex you really should stop watching V for Vendetta. its giving you a really warped idea on society. firstly the government doesnt produce fear intentionally it produces laws that need to be enforced by legal systems and how are you gonna make people follow these laws that regulate society ?.. thats right you make punishments. and what are people scared of .. thats right getting punished . so you see the governments not really serving creamy hot bowls of fear like you say. society is really just scared of the consequences placed on it if and when a law is broken. btw nice .. you managed to add a starwars qoute without actually crediting yoda. fear leads to hate ? nice. |
| Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614 | Migatron.: I cannot actually comprehend that you believe that. If you analyse any political campaign [not just in Australia], I can guarantee it probably has a healthy dose of fear mixed into it. You seem to have a very rose-coloured look of governments. What you are talking about [i.e the law being completely faceless, governments not using fear intentionally, etc.] is proper in theory, but is that actually how it happens? Is the law really faceless? Or is that just how it is supposed to be? |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | We were talking about already established in power governments that have control. your talking about a political party thats vying for power that doesnt really have it. can you see the difference ? Governments dont use fear. in a way fear most specifically, Fear in society, motivates the government. lets take for instance the recent growing terrorist activity. everyone freaks out the people are getting scared. so whats the government do to react to everyone getting scared by terrorist ? they make new laws concerning it. in 2005 australia passed the anti terorism act. proof that the government doesnt make the fear, rather the government responds to fear. and yes the law is faceless not just in theory but in practice. thats the way it has to be to function. when a criminal goes to trial he walks into the court room with nothing familiar. the judge he doesnt know his name till its mentioned, the juries anonymous. The laws theyre impersonal and you know nothing of the people who drafted them or who voted to put it in its just there. and from a persecuted persons point of view the system of law is faceless. |
| freak_boi Killjoy  Age: 32 Gender: Male Posts: 63 | The only time id agree with the death sentence is if it was becaused some one commited sexual abuse or rape. If their that heartless to do that to people, why should we have mercey? They never show remorce. If it was because some one killed another, i have no idea. Depends if it was in cold blood or not. |
| Rexperience Bleeding on the Floor Age: 32 Gender: Male Posts: 1052 | Migatron: I believe some definitions (provided by dictionary.com) are in order: Law: 1. the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision. Government: 1. the political direction and control exercised over the actions of the members, citizens, or inhabitants of communities, societies, and states; direction of the affairs of a state, community, etc.; political administration The way I see it, law is how the government's rule is up held...As in the US: The Legislative part of our government is Congress which makes our laws.The President of the United States administers the Executive Branch of our government. He enforces the laws that the Legislative Branch (Congress) makes.The Judicial Branch is composed of special judges who interpret laws according to the Constitution. Yes, thankfully there are "Checks and Balances" but Law is involved in every branch of our gov. Also when someone today is sentenced to execution its is by the state. For capital punishment is decided by the state government and its laws. So when I said "giving the government to much power" I meant too much by allowing them to create laws that involve systematic execution. Migatron:Ahh now my friend you are getting into a very sticky subject, Right and Wrong, which I do not wish to debate as it all depends on ones point of view. I hope I never make the mistake of telling you that you're wrong and I'm right, it means nothing. Migatron:I know this is no utopia, but I sure wish it was. That is why I object to violence. I hope you can understand, things are screwed up now because of our actions. We create our destiny, it is our choice. I have found violence to be obsolete in this stain age....I'm always surprised how much will people pay in taxes for the means of destruction. I gotta be careful to say on the same subject...Of all things that we pay money for, I see no problem in some of it going to deal with prisoners in a peaceful manner. Migatron:Ha! Are you in the US? Do you own a tv? Can you say "Weapons of mass distruction?" Fear is a rampant running plague here and our government isn't helping out. Yes the in the idea of democracy, government does fear the public, but it doesn't mean anything if the public is scared out of its mind because of its own mentality (which is because of a number of things including the government) Unfrotunatley America is pressently addicted to fear, just put on the evening news and you'll see what I mean faster than you can say "Al Qaeda" Migatron:But this only makes things more difficult, who draws the line between punishment and murder? There are so many factors so easily over looked in simple carelessness for those sentenced that leads to the law losing its purpose freak_boi:This is exactly what I'm talkin bout, to many questions, ifs and buts. I feel its easier and better just not to open the can of worms. Migatron: ???I've never seen the movie. If you think believing that peaceful society is possible involves warped ideas, then Hell, my brain is TWISTED! The problem I see with Capital Punishment is that (whether you want it to or not) it teaches the public that violence is an acceptable solution for its problems. The proof of the contrary is quite simple; we have been fighting/executing for millennia and nothing has changed. Dr. King now comes to mind. I'm aware that he was speaking of civil rights, but try not to get caught up in the context and listen to his words, they make sense: "Through violence you may murder a murderer, but you can't murder murder. Through violence you may murder a liar, but you can't establish truth. Through violence you may murder a hater, but you can't murder hate. Darkness cannot put out darkness. Only light can do that…." Migatron:I have known this to be true long before I ever saw Starwars, I did not intend to make any reference. The fact of the matter is that now more than ever is a time for change. The consequences of our past actions as a race are catching up to us and we must decide what kind of a future we want to have,if any future at all. What ever happens it is brought about by us, and I will contribute no fear (or violence) to the situation, only love. ~ Rex |
| Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614 | Migatron.: And what about governments that are already in power during political campaigns? If you remember last year in Australia in the lead up to the election, the Howard government used fear to try and manipulate the publics of Australia. He tried to invoke fear in us by telling us that a new government would pretty much f**k up our economy etc. That is just one example of how governments use fear intentionally. Obviously, the example of fear I just mentioned is different from the type of fear governments use with the death penalty, but it's nonetheless fear. I still uphold the opinion that the law is theoretically meant to be faceless, but in practice it isn't always faceless. After all, those judges and juries you speak of are made up of people; people have emotion, and people think with emotion, even if they are supposed to be thinking rationally and with logic. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | okay now were getting super off track and if we keep argueing over this this threads gonna gett blocked . im just gonna agree to disagree cos this is gonna go on for months if we keep going . im just regurgitating my oppinion on the topic from what ive learn from about four years of legal studies. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | techno cocaine.: no but the government wasn't using fear to change legislation or to swing votes in a referendum were they ?. thats whats different. and during election time they're just another political party weather they've won or not. obviously its working if they're managing to sentence people to death right ? if everyone thought on a real lovey dovey way they would just say no to the death penalty but no .. they do send people to death as per the law does. |
| Thug Life. Bleeding on the Floor Age: 33 Gender: Male Posts: 1315 | KingRex: i dont need the definitions. i know what im talking about when i talk about the law and so those weren't really necessary. and yes the checks and balances are working considering no other branch of the government is allowed to interfere with the inner workings. and the laws that allow for execution have been around for centuries and really have just evolved from customary laws. and again its not like they're going old school victorian england and executing people for stealing loaves of bread. you really do make it sound like people are being slaughtered in mass amounts for minuscule things now back to focus on the death penalty. lets think about the five main purposes of punishing and indvidual okae - Retribution - Restorative justice - incapacitation - deterrence - Rehabilitation . now fifty points to see which one of those the death penalty fits under ? . . . . if you said retribution you'd be wrong ... we execute to both deter offenders and to incapacitate them thus at the very least stopped the person from committing crimes in the community. and again the crimes they would have committed would have been ones equal or greater to that they had committed prior enough to earn them the death penalty. Fear is usually presented by the media. not the government. the media heads are usually just influenced by the governments they support. eg fox news. Ruper Murdoch loves the Republicans hence Fox news is biased . now that is completely different from the way your talking about which is the government spreading its "fear" through its own means by sticking its hands in the media ala Adolf Hitler. and i live in Australia thank you. i didnt intend on calling you twisted because you dream of a utopian society its your really far out way of explaining that fear is gonna cause massive riots on the streets causing a downfall of society. which is a pretty unrealistic idea if you think about it. we don't live in 1917 russia on the verge of revolution. we live in a modern society with high speed information it could not possibly happen like that. the only chance for that to happen is if every single person on the face of the plannet instantaneously decides to fall in and riot. which is impossible considering everyone has their own formed ideas and ideals and are relativly level headed. plus with the growing amount of highly educated levelheaded individuals popping out of universities its a bit clear that a massive riot is not imminent. Dr King was a lawyer trained in the south. if anything he was probably down for the death penalty to be used against clansmen. |
| Demolition Lover 85 Killjoy  Age: 38 Gender: Female Posts: 51 | i struggle with this one. I've always been against it. Because it's not our place to take a life. God should be the one to decide when we go. I know I've heard people complain about it's the tax payers that are having to pay for them bein gin prison but oh well. What if it's like the green mile? The person really didn't do it? Yeah they can't get back those years they were in jail but after they have been put to death then it's really too late. I had a friend that him and his daddy were killed back in the summmer going into 6th grade. I really hated those men for what they did and then I would have done anything to have them on thier death beds. So, it's hard for me to really decide about it. On one hand I say no and on the other I think of Joey and his dad and think it should be done. |
| Harlequinn Salute You in Your Grave  Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 2704 | im against it, although its not something that i've thought a ton about. its really hypocritical though. and i dont care wat someone's crime is, eventually they will die, and i believe that god will take care of them then. who are we to judge who should live? |
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