Suicide and Self harm

Starr:

I see what you mean. It can be confusing. But then again, there are a lot of people who constantly and publically announce "I cut!" and are just doing/saying it for attention.
What you gotta do is sort out the attention-seekers from the emotionally unstable.

Just because someone wears long sleeves alot
doesn`t nessecerily mean that they cut. ditto about the jewelry.

Do they spend long periods of time alone and then freak out or become jumpy when someone enters the room? that doesn`t mean that
they were cutting

Do they sometimes have cuts on their arms and legs and refuse to say how they got there, or mutter something about falling over? They probably self-harm. What if what they are saying is true?

Kiss Me,Tory:

Just because someone wears long sleeves alot
doesn`t nessecerily mean that they cut. ditto about the jewelry.

A lot of people do try to use those things to cover up what they do.

Kiss Me,Tory:

Do they spend long periods of time alone and then freak out or become jumpy when someone enters the room? that doesn`t mean that
they were cutting

If they are depressed, then it would be a pretty good indication that that was what they were doing.

Kiss Me,Tory:

Do they sometimes have cuts on their arms and legs and refuse to say how they got there, or mutter something about falling over? They probably self-harm. What if what they are saying is true?

Again...

Starr:

If you think they are lying, trust your intuition and keep a close eye on them.

Starr:

I see what you mean. It can be confusing. But then again, there are a lot of people who constantly and publically announce "I cut!" and are just doing/saying it for attention.

Do you mean that they cut for attention or that they just say they cut for attention? Because that's two completely different things. If someone's cutting themselves so that they get some attention (although I don't really agree that that's even a real reason but just what other people think is their reason, but I'll go along with this) then they're probably unstable. And if someone's lying about cutting so that they get some attention, then they're probably also unstable.

Starr:

Reassure them that they are cared for and that they do have friends and family.

Ok, this is probably going to come across as pedantic, but what if you actually don't have friends and family. It always strikes me how (some) people (appear) to think that loneliness is in the mind because it's socially undesirable. And sure there's hotlines you can phone for someone to talk to but that's not the best method for everyone. It's just, people who self-harm seem to get lumped into this 'Cutters' category and there's all these assumptions made about them when really all it is social deviation that people think can be 'corrected'. But argh, sorry, I'm rambling now and not making any sense. :/

clarissa:

Do you mean that they cut for attention or that they just say they cut for attention? Because that's two completely different things. If someone's cutting themselves so that they get some attention (although I don't really agree that that's even a real reason but just what other people think is their reason, but I'll go along with this) then they're probably unstable. And if someone's lying about cutting so that they get some attention, then they're probably also unstable.

Some people use a little of both (Cutting for attention is a reason. Trust me. Someone told me they only cut themselves because they like the attention people give them over it.). And it makes them mentally unstable, not emotionally unstable like the people who cut because they can't cope with their emotions.

clarissa:

Ok, this is probably going to come across as pedantic, but what if you actually don't have friends and family. It always strikes me how (some) people (appear) to think that loneliness is in the mind because it's socially undesirable. And sure there's hotlines you can phone for someone to talk to but that's not the best method for everyone. It's just, people who self-harm seem to get lumped into this 'Cutters' category and there's all these assumptions made about them when really all it is social deviation that people think can be 'corrected'. But argh, sorry, I'm rambling now and not making any sense. :/

They'll have someone. Everyone has someone, even if it doesn't always feel like it. Someone, somewhere cares about you and doesn't want to see you get hurt. And if you're trying to help them then that would indicate you care for them and consider them as a friend.
I know you can't just 'correct' someone who self-harms because you want to or you think it's socially unacceptable. They have to want to help themselves too and have to be willing to try to stop.

Starr:

Some people use a little of both (Cutting for attention is a reason. Trust me. Someone told me they only cut themselves because they like the attention people give them over it.). And it makes them mentally unstable, not emotionally unstable like the people who cut because they can't cope with their emotions.

All right, so there are different kinds of unstable. How is mentally unstable different to emotionally unstable? And which is worse, if there is a worse? And how do you tell, and how do you help? Oh, so many questions... I'm afraid I don't really agree that people do it for attention. I mean, what do they want, people to notice that they're upset? Is that really so different from people who do it because someone's abusing them, because they have Real Problems? Basically it amounts to the same thing (well, it does to me) because there's something in their life that's making them unhappy and they're chosing the same way of coping with it. How can one person- the 'real cutter, the one has the real problems- be viewed with sympathy, while the other- the 'faker', the one doing it so people will look at them- be held in contempt?

Which leads me to think that many people think the apparently attention-seeking fakers are somehow manipulating others into pitying them. Am I near it, is that what anyone thinks?

Starr:

They'll have someone. Everyone has someone, even if it doesn't always feel like it. Someone, somewhere cares about you and doesn't want to see you get hurt. And if you're trying to help them then that would indicate you care for them and consider them as a friend.
I know you can't just 'correct' someone who self-harms because you want to or you think it's socially unacceptable. They have to want to help themselves too and have to be willing to try to stop.

I guess it's just that the loneliness can be too intense and you really believe it. But how do you know that someone else is not alone if you haven't lived in their shoes? It's a bit of a generalisation to say that "everyone has someone". I mean, how do you know that everyone does?

clarissa:

All right, so there are different kinds of unstable. How is mentally unstable different to emotionally unstable?

Mentally unstable - You have mental issues and need help. Emotionally unstable - You cannot deal with your emotions and need help.

clarissa:

And which is worse, if there is a worse? And how do you tell, and how do you help? Oh, so many questions...

Help them in whatever way they think is going to work best for them. If they don't want help, then don't force it onto them.

clarissa:

I'm afraid I don't really agree that people do it for attention. I mean, what do they want, people to notice that they're upset? Is that really so different from people who do it because someone's abusing them, because they have Real Problems? Basically it amounts to the same thing (well, it does to me) because there's something in their life that's making them unhappy and they're chosing the same way of coping with it. How can one person- the 'real cutter, the one has the real problems- be viewed with sympathy, while the other- the 'faker', the one doing it so people will look at them- be held in contempt?
Which leads me to think that many people think the apparently attention-seeking fakers are somehow manipulating others into pitying them. Am I near it, is that what anyone thinks?

Yep. What they want is people to pity them. They want people to say "Oh you poor thing. I feel so bad for you." It's the adrenaline rush they get from people showering them with attention and/or affection. Don't treat either of them with contempt. All cutters need whatever help they can get and are willing to accept.

clarissa:

I guess it's just that the loneliness can be too intense and you really believe it. But how do you know that someone else is not alone if you haven't lived in their shoes? It's a bit of a generalisation to say that "everyone has someone". I mean, how do you know that everyone does?

Well think this way, how many people do you know who actually have no-one? I'm not talking they feel alone, everyone does sometimes, I mean find me someone who has no-one in this world. Not a single family member or friend and never has done. Everybody out there has someone, and should it take you to be hospitalised from loss of blood or broken bones from a suicide attempt, you will realise who was there for you, willing to help, and you didn't take their offers of help and a new chance at life.

Starr:

Mentally unstable - You have mental issues and need help. Emotionally unstable - You cannot deal with your emotions and need help.

Can't both be due to physiological causes? Chemical imbalances in the brain, etc. triggering possibly harmful coping mechanisms. If by mental issues you mean bi-polar disorders, personality disorders, etc. things that are caused by your body that you can't stop. If emotionally unstable is being unable to cope with your emotions, maybe there's a physiological reason for that too, like lack of serotonin or other chemicals. If so, then I don't really see a difference between mentally and emotionally unstable. There's argument that they can both be caused by the same thing and lead to the same thing.

Starr:

Yep. What they want is people to pity them. They want people to say "Oh you poor thing. I feel so bad for you." It's the adrenaline rush they get from people showering them with attention and/or affection. Don't treat either of them with contempt. All cutters need whatever help they can get and are willing to accept.

If someone wants attention so badly that they will physically harm themselves or even lie about that, then there's probably a reason for it. Either they have an addiction to it or they're have had a lack of it in their lives.

Starr:

Well think this way, how many people do you know who actually have no-one? I'm not talking they feel alone, everyone does sometimes, I mean find me someone who has no-one in this world. Not a single family member or friend and never has done. Everybody out there has someone, and should it take you to be hospitalised from loss of blood or broken bones from a suicide attempt, you will realise who was there for you, willing to help, and you didn't take their offers of help and a new chance at life.

Hmm. I see where you're coming from; I can't think of anyone I know who has no one that cares about them. But it's a big world... I guess what I'm saying is that there's not always someone there all the time. People seem to have a knack of not being around when you need them most. And even if they are, they might not be able to convince you that they care so much, if the depression is so all-encompassing in your life.

i think that it could be prevented if they talked about it more in schools and gave it as much attention as smoking,drugs,alchol, and sex. personally i think some people dont see as bad of a problem than it rerally is.

What can be done to prevent it?
Truthfully, nothing. You can lecture all you want in classrooms, all it's going to do is put ideas in people's head. As far as what I know about it - it started out as a spur of a moment thing. No books or music or media that said to do it. Just an idea that maybe this could help

Who does it affect?
First and foremost the one that is hurting themselves or suicidal. That tends to get overlooked a lot. I can't count the times the phrase, "But it hurts *me* that you're hurting yourself." Emphasis on the me instead of yourself.

And I hate that. It's most importantly about the one that does it. Then it affects whoever decides to let it affect them. Be it friends or teachers or counsulers ... they choose to notice or not to notice. They choose whether it affects them or not.


Why is it more common now than 10-20 years ago?
Because the world has become a colder, less personal place. Divorice rates have gone up. There are few stay-at-home parents. People are getting left alone for longer amounts of time and have to deal with being alone.

Are there enough support groups?
I don't think it's a question of quanity but quality. There could be 4 different support groups meeting a day.

But I still wouldn't go to one. Not willingly.

How can family members help?
Honestly, I don't know. It's a personal thing. If someone who suicidal or self harms reaches out and asks for help. Don't get mad. Don't tell them they're stupid. Don't ask them if they'd like to make an appointment with a shrink.

Of course they're going to say no. Especially if you make them feel worse about what they're doing.

Be compassionate and understanding. At least try. Get them the help they can't get themselves - if they ask for it.

I dont see the point of cutting, a friend of mine does it and his excuse is that his life is full of problems and it helps relieve pain... I dont get it how does cutting relieve pain? It causes it, also many people who have perfect lives (my friend for example) do it, why? is it for attention?


well.. cutting releases certain chemicals in the brain that can lower physical pain levels, reduce stress levels, create a "high" sensation in some people, and it can be addictive. But, what they dont realize is that eventually it wont work as well anymore.. and what people dont realize, is that if the person had any sense they wouldnt cut for attention because people dont say "aw, you poor thing" ... they say "Look at that freak, he hurts himself.. i bet he does it for attention" .... although some people do do it for attention, they usually dont do it for long because of all the negative attention they get..

and how can you be positive your friend has the perfect life.. i knew people i thought had the perfect life.. and i was wrong.. their lives were far from perfect.. some people are better at covering things up, lying, and hiding things then others. Also, if your friend cuts himself then how could you possibly say his life is perfect.. because you already know of one problem...

What can be done to prevent it?

a lot. suicide help lines, therapy, the purple pill, even creative art groups like postsecret. but the thing is, it's always going to be there. there's always gonna be a kid who's abused by his parents or the girl who gets picked on at school. if you want to get rid of this problem, solve those first.

Who does it affect?

everyone. whether its yourself, a realitive or a friend, at least one person you know has had a suicidal thought. they might not have done anything with it, but they still had the idea. if you do know someone who has thought about it, get them help. they could really need it

Why is it more common now than 10-20 years ago?

there are more issues going on. it just seems that people are getting into more shit these days and they're not getting help. blame poor prevenitive education
Are there enough support groups?

no. if there was, not as many people would be jumping from a bridge.

How can family members help?

pay attention. there are signals when someone is depressed. and just get them help. you shouldn't care about the expencises of therapy if it means you could save a loved one

kay, i done.

no, wait. suicide is bad. i don't want anyone on here to do it because i love you all so much! and please, PLEASE. please please talk to someone!
guidence counsolers, your mom, a close friend, i don't care. talk to them if you need help. they will listen

People cut because when blood is drawn/a cut is made, the brain releases endorphins that make the person think they are happy. I don't know anyone who does it, but it's not a good way to solve things. They could die if they do that, or have to go to a hospital, which may be a waste of money. Their problems can be solved in other ways. Cutting isn't gonna help anyone. People kill themselves because it's their only way out, but that's also not good.

Standards are really high these days. There are a lot more emo people, too, and others make fun of them for no reason.

a big reason why people want to commit suicide is because how their family treats them, if their parents where allways gone and stuff of caorse they are going to feel like they dont love them and it happens alote more in our time because people just want to make more money and they spend all their time at work.

at this point im so sick of the whole
"emo...im gonna slash my wrists and die" generalization-it makes me sick...
I go to school with 750 preppies, and believe it or not, every kid has problems, be it the alcoholic, the popular kid who hides his OCD or the girl who looks perfect on the outside but is a mess on the inside.
im sick of the generalizations of suicide and how it seems like such an easy escape for people with problems. I know what it is to be on the brink of suicide....its a scary motherfucking place, but taking the easy way out is even worse than facing problems. Every road is tough, and I dont know how just slashing your wrists or jumping off the cliff solves anything...
I know about transferance and how dealing with physical pain is easier than dealing with emotional pain...been there-done that. I even know about the whole "releasing endorphines" route-again-been there-done that. I just dont know how that road solves anything-it just creates more problems. It creates the stress of keeping the secret or hiding the scars. It makes you bleed and fucks up your arms. Its messy. It secludes you more than you already are because you are likely to retreat from both family and friends.
I just dont get how any of this shit solves anything...

"at this point im so sick of the whole
"emo...im gonna slash my wrists and die" generalization-it makes me sick..."
Amen, Broken_. I've been thinking that too.

On another note, it has been said for those who need help to talk to someone and visa versa. Confronting one of your friends can be supremely frightening and at many times it is easier to say nothing. I have a friend who has helped me at my worst times and I him. My friend has had a very hard time recently and I knew that I needed to confront him but I was scared out of my wits. However, I plucked up the power to talk to him and thereafter we made a binding promise to never give up on each other no matter what which we will always keep. Never have I been so scared for another. I would like to say this though: If you ever need to talk to a friend about their self-harm/depression/etc TAKE COURAGE, you can and will save their life.

RedRose:

"at this point im so sick of the whole
"emo...im gonna slash my wrists and die" generalization-it makes me sick..."
Amen, Broken_. I've been thinking that too.
.

thank you
its just
I have friends who are taking this road that they think is so easy
what happens if you try and die and it doesnt work?
vegatative state anyone? hospitals pain anger people trying to convince and push you to talk when you dont want to. I dont understand how that will solve anything either

Has anyone seen the Kerrang 'rock for life' campaign. I think it's a really good charity. It helps the samaritans, who are actually quite friendly and calm when you actually talk to them. I think it's good that something so close to rock music where suicide may be concieved as the norm is actually getting out there and helping people with these problems.

my friend says a rubber band works for her but me personaly clutching ice for like 3 minuets

I think:
Suicide: If you SERIOUSLY have a bad depressing life, it's ok I guess. I would commit suicide if I have a really sad life.
Cutting: Is absoluetly stupid. One, a lot of cutters are attention-seekers. And two, it doesnt make a difference. Cutting will still make your life even more miserable.