Animal Testing/Abuse/cruelty
| Author | Message |
|---|---|
| tiny-t Killjoy  Age: 31 Gender: Female Posts: 80 | |
| Mindfuck Always Born a Crime  Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614 | Eponine: Let me pose a question: if you had the choice, would you choose your natural habitat (whatever that may be) or would you choose to be kept in an enclosure whereby people who lived externally to you and who you have no connection with whatsoever fed you when they planned to, cleaned your enclosure when they planned to, and introduced new roommates to you when they wanted to without warning? Personally, I'd like to roam 'free', despite the fact that I may be harmed by 'predators'. Or die crossing the road. Whichever one... I'm not anti-zoo per say. I'm playing devil's advocate. |
| blow Bleeding on the Floor  Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 1137 | Mindfuck: Animals in zoos are not just fed whenever the zookeeper feels like it, they keep a careful schedule based on the animals needs. The same goes for cleaning the animal's enclosure. I also don't think that a new 'roommate' would just suddenly appear. If you where adding another tiger, you would introduce it to the other tiger(s) and slowly let them all get used to the newbie. Quote For humans the equivalent of the wild would be living on the streets, and a zoo enclosure for a human would be a house. I'd much rather live in a house than out on the streets. |
| Chantal Bleeding on the Floor  Age: 29 Gender: Female Posts: 1015 | [quote="Eponine"] As long as the animal is fed and the habitat provided is too their liking, they don't care whether they are in zoo. Zoos make absolutely sure that an animal has everything it needs in it's enclosure. They give them a place to drink, a place to eat, a place to sleep, a place to relieve themselves, and everything else that they need. If an animal could understand the concept of the wild and a zoo, and could choose between the two, they would probably choose to live in a zoo. [quote] I understand what you are saying here, but I still disagree with you. Zoos are fighting against nature. A habitat will never be provided to their liking. Primates in nature are given entire forests, not enclosures. Cages are no comparison to what birds are given in the wild.Predators are part of nature. People with animal cups and stuffed lemurs are not. There have been numerous instances of zoos participating in animal neglect and cruelty by not giving animals adequate conditions to live in. Zoos don't always give animals everything they need to live. Don't get the idea from this that I am a PETA supporter. While I believe the organization started out with good intentions, I think they haved turned into more of a business than anything that's main concern is the donations. The animals have been put second. I do still agree with the anti-zoo principal. |
| blow Bleeding on the Floor Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 1137 | Yes;Indeed;True: I don't see how they are fighting against nature. Without zoos some animals would probably be extinct. While an animal taken from the wild would not be happy in a zoo animals born in zoos(which most are) have no concept of the wild, the only thing they know is the zoo, so they are perfectly happy with it. If you where to take a zoo born animal and put it in the wild it would die. Quote Well those are obviously not good zoos and zoos that neglect animals should be punished. |
| xjunebugx Killjoy  Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 24 | Right, before I start my spiel, I must state one thing; I am vegan. I have been a vegan for nearly three years, and do not see myself changing my lifestyle or my views anytime soon. Ok, I don't believe that zoo's are right. Animals should not live in cages. And animal testing for cosmetic reasons makes me sick...however, for potentially human life saving medicine, i feel it is a necessary evil. i mean, i know medicines that work on humans may not work on animals or vice versa, but it's better to risk an animals life by perhaps killing it or harming it, rather than killing a human. and killing some rabbits in the name of medicinal research may save an unbelievable amount of human life. |
| blow Bleeding on the Floor Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 1137 | xjunebugx: Just curious, what is your reasoning behind that? I was vegan for half a year, but now I'm just a vegetarian, not a very good one though; I eat fish. |
| xjunebugx Killjoy Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 24 | Eponine: Because, most animals in zoo's are in enviroments vastly different to the ones they are used to, thats if they weren't bred in captivity. They have little freedom in cages, they are constantly watched, they become human dependant. Animals are supposed to live amongst other animals, be cared for by other animals and the like, not by humans, it's not natural for them. |
| Chantal Bleeding on the Floor Age: 29 Gender: Female Posts: 1015 | Eponine: Yes, animals are born in zoos because of breeding programs. This goes against normal mating processes that animals would experience in the wild. Yes it would not survive, because it hasn't been given a chance to learn natural hunting skills. It has its meals in routines. |
| blow Bleeding on the Floor Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 1137 | Yes;Indeed;True: The animals are not forced to mate. The only difference is that the animals are in a controlled environment, so humans can manipulate the circumstances when an animal is in heat, but the process of the actual mating is the same. Quote There's nothing wrong with that though. An animal in a zoo will stay in a zoo and be perfectly happy. xjunebugx: Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought most animals these days where born in captivity, so they wouldn't know anything about the wild and would die if they where put into the wild. "They have little freedom in cages, they are constantly watched, they become human dependant. Animals are supposed to live amongst other animals, be cared for by other animals and the like, not by humans, it's not natural for them.[/quote] They're not constantly watched, at night everybody goes home. And things that aren't 'natural' aren't always bad. The internet isn't 'natural' but it's not bad. By your reasoning domestic dogs and cats are bad. Even if it is not 'natural' animals in zoos don't comprehend that. (Not one's born in zoos.) For animals in zoos their enclosures are what's natural too them, the zookeepers are what's natural too them and as long as the animals are not mistreated I don't see the problem with zoos. I think a lot of people think about this topic in terms of humans. A human would not like to constantly be kept in a small enclosure like that at a zoo, but that is because humans think on a much higher level than animals. I respect your opinion though, I just wanted to state mine. (Even though I'm just stating it again. Oh well...) That said about zoos, I absolutely hate when animal are used in circus acts, because the large majority of those animals (if not all) live in extremely poor conditions and are horribly mistreated. |
| Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614 | Eponine: I understand they clean the enclosure and feed the animals at specific intervals. That's the point I was making. In the wild, lions (for example) hunt for their own food. They're not given it by humans. They have natural instincts, regardless of their environment. Eponine: No it's not. Not in my eyes. In my house, I shop for my own food. I cook my own food. I eat whenever I damn well please, not when someone else decides for me at specific intervals. Eponine: Humans pick the possible candidates for mating, not the animal. That in itself is unnatural. Eponine: I don't, for one. I think about it in terms of the animal and their natural habitat. I originally gave the example of humans to pose another perspective. |
| Mindfuck Always Born a Crime Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 5614 | Eponine: You do realise that the main cause of animal extinction is because of humans? If no animals were kept in zoos and humans had no demand for any animal resources, then theoretically extinction would only exist because of change of habitat or loss of, and even then that would not happen very often. For most of the extinctions, we only have ourselves to blame, not other animals. |
| Faye Merci Salute You in Your Grave  Age: - Gender: - Posts: 4473 | Eponine: Exactly. If nature had it's course, those animals would be extinct. Instead, we force them to live in cages. I'm against zoos. I think animals can be raised in captivity, but should always be allowed to live their adult lives in the wild. I think the only reason for imprisoning an animal should be for it's own health - and by that I mean if it's badly injured. If you're going to stick it in a cage just because, I don't know, if you think it might get hurt by a predator, I don't think that's reason enough. Sad as it is, I think we should let animals be. However, certain things we do need to intervene on. For instance, the impending extinction of polar bears due to global warming - since this is the fault of humans, I believe we should involve ourselves in their lives, but not necessarily by putting them in zoos. I'd much rather just see us cut carbon as much as possible and let them continue to live where they do now. |
| thank fsm. In The Murder Scene  Age: 36 Gender: Female Posts: 20564 | xjunebugx: xjunebugx: I guess everyone's thoughts are different, but um, why are you vegan again? I mean, I am because I see all life as equally valuable (don't split hairs with me guys; I am not asking for it nor will I respond). O.o |
| Lovesick Melody. Bulletproof Heart  Age: 83 Gender: Female Posts: 25760 | Faye Merci: But if they are raised in captivity, they have are not used to living out in the wild. Often zoos do want to put animals into the wild, but know they cannot survive because they cannot hunt properly, find shelter etc. But they have to keep breeding them in zoos, because then they can keep the species from tipping over the edge and into the extinction category. |
| xjunebugx Killjoy Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 24 | Chris Martin: I am vegan because I don't believe in killing or harming a living creature for food or clothing, especially when there are alternatives. |
| Firegarder Joining The Black Parade  Age: 38 Gender: Female Posts: 233 | Zookeepers work SO hard to provide the best they can for these animals. And they do this job because they love these animals so much, and they want to educate the public as to the plight of the animals in the wild. I think the best way of doing this is to have examples of the animals in capitivity. It's easier to get others excited about conservation when they can see the animals for themselves right in front of them. It's completely different to seeing them on tv. If the animals weren't happy in capitivty, they wouldn't be eating, they would be stressed, they'd look very ill. And when you go around a zoo these days, they simply don't look like that. The keepers work hard trying to come up with new ways of feeding the animals, creating ways that try to make it simialr to how they would get the food in the wild. There was a brilliant one in Newquay zoo were they put meat on a bungee so the cat (I forget exactly which species it was) had to wrestle with it! haha That didn't work so well for visitors when the cat let the dead rabbit go and it hit the glass at high speed... But some other points... the animals aren't shoved in public view all day. At least in the UK, that would be illegal, they must be provided with shelter where they can escape public view. Of course now some places will have cameras in nests to combat this for visitors when animals are constantly hidden from view. If you were to go into a zoo late at night, I'll tell you, it's a completely different place. All the animals are out when it's quiet! haha If they were forced out for the public, it would look like that through the day, but it doesn't, they can choose if they want to be watched or not, if the animal isn't comfortable, it can hide away. But I know you'll use that one against me now... Breeding programmes are really imporant. There are many species today that wouldn't exist any longer if we hadn't brought the remaining few into capitvity and put them in a breeding programme. And when they have got numbers up again, AND THE HABITAT IS PROTECTED (it's pointless otherwise), they do get released back into the wild to try again. What you don't seem to realise is, you cannot FORCE an animal to do anything. They only breed when they are happy, it's a survival mechanism from the wild. We can put the animals we want to breed together, but if they don't want to breed, they won't breed! It's what my friends work in, it's what I wanted to work in, I'll defend zoo's to the end. |
| blow Bleeding on the Floor Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 1137 | ^I completely agree. QuoteAn animal doesn't care. As long as it gets food it doesn't care whether it hunts it itself or is given food. Quote Humans provide a candidate, but they don't force the animals to mate. Sometimes the animals do mate, sometimes they don't. Again just because something is 'unnatural' doesn't mean it is bad. Quote Well if you don't then I wasn't referring to you. A lot of people who are so anti-zoo have this grandiose image in their head of some majestic wild animal and they think 'I like that better'. Which is followed by 'Oh that poor animal he must be so unhappy' when in fact the animal is perfectly happy. In terms of zoos being unnatural, there are a lot of unnatural things in the world, all caused or made by humans. I don't see all humans in the world ever agreeing to give up everything that is unnatural. If we all could I would have no problem with it, but it's not going to happen. As long as an animal is happy, I don't care whether it is in it's 'natural' habitat or not. |
| Eight Bitter Years. Killjoy Age: 28 Gender: Male Posts: 48 | Ya I agree its 50 50 cuz i am all for it if its for medical or scientific causes, but if its for food, hunting, entertainment, i am against it |
| xxWolvenPrincessxx Joining The Black Parade  Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 200 | I guess I'm ok with it as long as it's for a good purpose, for like research for a cure to something but other than that people souhldn't be using animals for things like fighting or just leaving them out in the yard with no food or water, or out there long enough so their collars become embeded in their necks. Graphic image |
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