Vegetarianism/veganism.

Haha, trust me, I know ALL about what meat is. The process, etc, but I never psyched myself out of it. I love telling people what hotdogs really are. But it's the same with other foods too. Bread is like a clump of living bacteria parts, and alcohol is yeast pee (I mean you are literally drinking another creatures pee!)
Food is food. Where it comes from or how is is processed doesn't matter much.

In your meat industry theory, yeh that's true., but unless AT LEAST 1/3 of the world decided to become vegan, it won't happen. HOPEFULLY things will never get that bad, or the rest of us that live naturally will basically be screwed T_T

LONG LIVE BUFFALO WILD WINGS!

LoversHeartDisease:

Not all farms are like one ones you describe (as you mentioned). You can eat meat from cruelty free farms. I for one am 100% against factory far, conditions, but instead of moaning about it and refusing meat all together, I intend on acting. The best way to stop the way animals are treated in factory farms is to submit a large donation (perhaps from a local benifit you put together) specifically for the farms conditions. submit letters with thousands of signatures demanding that the conditions be improved.
Being a vegan will NOT stop the way the animals are treated, or the amount that are raised and killed in a year. Production will not stop. Your just wasting meat in all honestly, and that animal died for nothing.

So to all people that stress about farms, not all farmers are cruel. Hell..60 years ago, factory farms didn't even measure to the number of caring family farms that sold their meat to the community. It's all thanks to big business. That's why our fruits and veggies are so messed up too. They are being pumped with chemicals to grow faster and larger (plants have feelings too you know)
All we can do to stop that is to support cruelty free factory farms and your local hardworking farmers, and to TAKE SOME ACTION against the mistreatment of animals in the fams such as the ones you describe.

If you get your meat from a factory farm, which most likely you do, seeing as factory farms have bought out regular farmers, then there's a very good chance that it's cruel. Factory farms keep roughly 60, 000 chickens [using chickens as an example.]
It would be impossible to make sure every single animal is fed, not being trampled, and is healthy. They see animals as a profit and a product, not as a living creature. So anything goes. They don't have the time, nor the money to make sure every animal is living a happy, cruelty free life. They don't have enough room to keep them comfortable. They're so crammed into their cages, that most get trampled, don't get any food or water, and they cannot open their wings. A few weeks after they're born, someone takes a hot blade and slices off their beaks. Usually this takes off some of their tongue, or face. It's supposed to prevent them from pecking at each other, which they do when they're stressed out from being put into the cages.
If that's not cruel, I don't know what is.

And if submitting letters to improve the conditions actually worked, don't you think it would have happened by now? Sure, the little farm in a small town may listen and treat their animals with care, but factory farms aren't going to listen. They couldn't even if they wanted to. And most local farmers are being bought out by bigger corporations, or being cleared for housing, or buildings.
We used to have 9 farms in my town. It's a very small town. We were able to buy fresh fruit and vegetables, and meat. But slowly they've started to disappear for housing, and stores. That's happening everywhere. And even if they're not bought out, it's hard for them to compete.

And vegetarians and Vegans save up to 100 animals a year. It's supply and demand. If one less person is eating meat, then they don't buy it. Then the grocery store or wherever doesn't need to order as much, less animals being bred, etc.

"plants have feelings too"
I'm hoping that's sarcasm. Plants don't have nervous systems, they cannot think, they cannot feel pain, they don't love, or have feelings - unlike animals.

Meat is just filled with fat, cholesterol, steroids, and other nasty things. I honestly don't want to put that in my body. Personally, I couldn't be happier not eating meat. I don't put my taste buds, nor my stomach before animals. I don't believe we're any better than them.

There are actually "factory farms" that pride themselves on cruelty free farming. On the Animal Lovers Against PETA MySpace group, someone posted a very large list of brands to buy. Propagandaists tend to make the number of farms that do treat their animals poorly unrealistically high: because the truth is that conditions are improving BECAUSE of the letters and demands made by ordinary people. Look at how far we have come from say, the earliest farms in the 20s, where conditions for both the animals and the workers were beyond cruel. Once again, it's thanks to propaganda that people have this demon view of factory farms. You sound just like a MySpace chain letter. YES, conditions in many places are bad, but once again, they are improving thanks to people that actually give a crap. Owners of these farms are not 100% heartless, and they are listening. As for their money, well that's what donations are for. I honestly believe that if some group like the ALF or PETA used the money they make donating land to factory farms instead of making stupid cartoons about how "your mommy kills animals", or blowing up research labs, maybe there could be a full scale change in the conditions in these places..but these self rightous groups spend all of they money instead trying to convert people into veganism and, yes, in some cases terrorism (mostly the first though)

If meat doesn't go to consumers, it will end up somewhere else. In dog food, shelters, etc. Production has not changed much at all, and With our soaring population, Veganism can hardly even curb the amount of animals killed a year.

Plants feel pain too. It may not be physical, but apparently to vegans it's only cruel to murder creatures that feel physically. There have been countless studies on plants emotional interactions with eachother and others.
http://pressesc.com/01181755074_plants_recognise_siblings
http://www.derrickjensen.org/backster.html
Lit- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Plants
http://www.mainarticles.com/Article/Communicating-with-Plants/1000
and so on. PLants are worth just as much as animals, and should be treated with equal regard for life..in MY case, just as yummy.

Actually, meat isn't bad for you at all, it's a matter of how careful you are with it. Meat only diets (the fish diet for example) are actually very healthy when executed right, and can be moreso then veg diets, HOWEVER, I personally believe the best diet is a healthy mix of both. Too much of anything is bad news.

LoversHeartDisease:

There are actually "factory farms" that pride themselves on cruelty free farming. On the Animal Lovers Against PETA MySpace group, someone posted a very large list of brands to buy. Propagandaists tend to make the number of farms that do treat their animals poorly unrealistically high: because the truth is that conditions are improving BECAUSE of the letters and demands made by ordinary people. Look at how far we have come from say, the earliest farms in the 20s, where conditions for both the animals and the workers were beyond cruel. Once again, it's thanks to propaganda that people have this demon view of factory farms. You sound just like a MySpace chain letter. YES, conditions in many places are bad, but once again, they are improving thanks to people that actually give a crap. Owners of these farms are not 100% heartless, and they are listening. As for their money, well that's what donations are for. I honestly believe that if some group like the ALF or PETA used the money they make donating land to factory farms instead of making stupid cartoons about how "your mommy kills animals", or blowing up research labs, maybe there could be a full scale change in the conditions in these places..but these self rightous groups spend all of they money instead trying to convert people into veganism and, yes, in some cases terrorism (mostly the first though)

If meat doesn't go to consumers, it will end up somewhere else. In dog food, shelters, etc. Production has not changed much at all, and With our soaring population, Veganism can hardly even curb the amount of animals killed a year.

Plants feel pain too. It may not be physical, but apparently to vegans it's only cruel to murder creatures that feel physically. There have been countless studies on plants emotional interactions with eachother and others.
http://pressesc.com/01181755074_plants_recognise_siblings
http://www.derrickjensen.org/backster.html
Lit- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Plants
http://www.mainarticles.com/Article/Communicating-with-Plants/1000
and so on. PLants are worth just as much as animals, and should be treated with equal regard for life..in MY case, just as yummy.

Actually, meat isn't bad for you at all, it's a matter of how careful you are with it. Meat only diets (the fish diet for example) are actually very healthy when executed right, and can be moreso then veg diets, HOWEVER, I personally believe the best diet is a healthy mix of both. Too much of anything is bad news.

Meat increases your risk of Heart Diesease and Cancer. I see it as being bad.
Again if Factory Farms actually listened then why wouldn't they listen to all those things PETA has said?

Again plants do not have a nerve system they cannot feel if they have their fruits picked. The plants do not cry when they feel pain. They do not suffer if they are seperated from their young. The thing is though that more people are becoming Vegetarian/Vegan every year.
Land is also being destroyed to make room for factory farms. If humans treated pets how the treat the animals in factory farms they would be sent to prison,

A regular consumer won't get a heart disease from eating meat. Much like a vegan that seriously calculates their diet won't get one of teh various sicknesses that come along with the lifestyle. Like I said, even meat only diets that are calculated as well as vegan ones can be healthy,

Maybe factory farms won't listen to PETA because the leaders are insane. Maybe..
No really, like I said before, its's not that factory farms are not listening, but you can't expect things to change so quickly. It takes time, money, and effort, but compared to past conditions, farms are improving. There is a lot of pressure on factory farms these days by animal rights groups, as well as the individual consumer, to change their habits. This has really only become a serious issue recently, so all I can say is that you need to give it time.

*as per the plant thing, follow the links please.

But animals ARN'T humans. they have nothing to do with our laws or social expectations. a lions pack doesn't treat a zebra like it's own now does it?
If you want to compare how humans treat animals to how humans treat humans, you are suggesting that humans shoudl not own pets, because owning a pet is like owning a slave. That is a PETA phillospohy that I find personally insulting. They believe that animals and humans deserve that same rights, but that makes little to no sense at all. We are not so high above other species that we should go around acting like we are protecting the welfare of them.
HUMANS ARE PHYSICALLY DESIGNED TO EAT MEAT, THEREFORE, WE EAT MEAT.

We should change how we do it, but by no means should we stop doing it all together,

A regular consumer won't get a heart disease from eating meat. Much like a vegan that seriously calculates their diet won't get one of teh various sicknesses that come along with the lifestyle. Like I said, even meat only diets that are calculated as well as vegan ones can be healthy,

Maybe factory farms won't listen to PETA because the leaders are insane. Maybe..
No really, like I said before, its's not that factory farms are not listening, but you can't expect things to change so quickly. It takes time, money, and effort, but compared to past conditions, farms are improving. There is a lot of pressure on factory farms these days by animal rights groups, as well as the individual consumer, to change their habits. This has really only become a serious issue recently, so all I can say is that you need to give it time.

*as per the plant thing, follow the links please.

But animals ARN'T humans. they have nothing to do with our laws or social expectations. a lions pack doesn't treat a zebra like it's own now does it?
If you want to compare how humans treat animals to how humans treat humans, you are suggesting that humans shoudl not own pets, because owning a pet is like owning a slave. That is a PETA phillospohy that I find personally insulting. They believe that animals and humans deserve that same rights, but that makes little to no sense at all. We are not so high above other species that we should go around acting like we are protecting the welfare of them.
HUMANS ARE PHYSICALLY DESIGNED TO EAT MEAT, THEREFORE, WE EAT MEAT.

We should change how we do it, but by no means should we stop doing it all together,

I am a vegetarian becuase I just don't like picturing a dead animal on my plate.
I don't preach to other people, but I also don't appeciate the constant teasing that I recieve.
I respect everybody's opinion, but I also think I have the right to be respected myself. Especially when somebody's opinion is, "Have some brownies, they are made of baby deers. Hahaha."
I also enjoy eating more vegetables.

B.P...I Wish I Was:

I am a vegetarian becuase I just don't like picturing a dead animal on my plate.
I don't preach to other people, but I also don't appeciate the constant teasing that I recieve.
I respect everybody's opinion, but I also think I have the right to be respected myself. Especially when somebody's opinion is, "Have some brownies, they are made of baby deers. Hahaha."
I also enjoy eating more vegetables.

I agree completely=]
I can't stand the sight sight of raw meat!

Here's my two cents.

I don't neccessarily think that humans were designed to eat meat. Back when we were still evolving, the cavemen (or early humans or whatever you prefer to call them) hunted animals because we needed the nutrients found in meat, and I can see the reasoning behind that. But now that we have the knowledge to know where we can get the same nutrients from alternative sources, the only thing that makes us keep eating meat is that we like it. It tastes good. We eat it out of pleasure.

And I don't try to convince anyone to follow my vegetarian lifestyle, or criticize them if they eat meat. I'm just sharing my opinion on the subject.

The reason we evolved period was because of meat (if you believe in evolution) Monkeys began to consume meat and it was because of this as well as other more minor factors that we grew canines and became what is now "human".

vampirexheart:

B.P...I Wish I Was:

I am a vegetarian becuase I just don't like picturing a dead animal on my plate.
I don't preach to other people, but I also don't appeciate the constant teasing that I recieve.
I respect everybody's opinion, but I also think I have the right to be respected myself. Especially when somebody's opinion is, "Have some brownies, they are made of baby deers. Hahaha."
I also enjoy eating more vegetables.

I agree completely=]
I can't stand the sight sight of raw meat!

i agree too! i feel that animals don't deserve to be eaten.

^ So, try telling lions that zebras and antelopes 'don't deserve to be eaten' - and then lions would become extinct, which would lead to an uproar.

Honestly, how is a lion eating a zebra, or a feral cat killing a bird, or a shark eating a smaller fish, cruel? And how is it any different at all to me sitting down to a big, meaty hamburger for dinner?
There is no difference. Animals get eaten by other animals - it is called a food chain. I am an animal too, as are you. And we are at the top of the food chain.
Therefore, we eat other animals. End.

Firstly, as a vegetarian, when it comes to other peoples choices, you wanna eat meat? its abosluelty fine be me, i just choose not to. and thats mostly because having witnessed the cruelty that goes on at those meat factory farms, i think its aboslutley disgusting the pain and suffering those animals go through. But what unnerves me is the sheer brutality and sadism that those farmers show towards those animals. burning them, hitting them, cutting them all while the animal is crying out in pain. what the hell is up with that?! do those people have no soul!?

to the person above me, those examples make no difference to the argument. yes a lion eating a zebra as part of a food chain, part of the theory of natural selection. thats natural. but those lions don't breed those zebras for food do they? i'm fine with people bredding animals just for food, supply and demand and what not, but that doesn't give them the right to torture them ruthlessly.

Thats a totally different issue then. IMO, Veganism does nothing to stop brutallity. Your fighting a war that your not even in if you think that's the case. The only thing that can be done to stop that is to act.. As mentioned above, I am a meat eater, yet I have probably tried more to do my part to help animals then half of the "vegans" here, who just sit there complaining about animal brutality. Not saying this is the case for you by the way, as your experience in the aerea is totally unknown to me.. Just a heads up to some of the other people in this thread.

Cigarettes And Suicide:

^ So, try telling lions that zebras and antelopes 'don't deserve to be eaten' - and then lions would become extinct, which would lead to an uproar.

Honestly, how is a lion eating a zebra, or a feral cat killing a bird, or a shark eating a smaller fish, cruel? And how is it any different at all to me sitting down to a big, meaty hamburger for dinner?
There is no difference. Animals get eaten by other animals - it is called a food chain. I am an animal too, as are you. And we are at the top of the food chain.
Therefore, we eat other animals. End.

what's different is that hamburger you're eating, was made from cows getting abused and drugged to grow quicker, and bred till their bodies give out.
i totally understand the natural food chain. but what we're doing is not natural. cows that never get to feel the sun on their backs, being forced to eat food that they shouldn't eat... they're not looked at as living things anymore. just meat.

^ Yet, I could very well have obtained the beef that made the meat patties from my uncle, who raises cattle on his farm and kills them (as humanely as possible, might I add) for food for his family and friends. In addition, such meat is absolutely free of any 'poisons' - the cows mung out on grass all day and the only time they come in contact with chemicals is the tick repellant tags in their ears (which are a necessary evil, and therefore not cruel in my opinion). They were not 'bred till their bodies gave out', they lived their lives and were killed at an appropriate time for making steaks out of them.

As it happens, there is a local butcher who does the same thing - only procures their meat from a local farmer who takes exceptionally good care of his cattle - they spend all day in a paddock out in the sun, they are fed only typical cattle feed, nothing 'drugging' them, they are fattened, yes, but not made to be so huge that they can't hold themselves up... These cattle are treated very humanely and I have absolutely no qualms about paying a few dollars extra to get meat that comes from happy cows.
It's still cheaper than buying meat from supermarkets, so that is what wins me out - I'm not a freaking millionaire, and when it's grocery-shopping time, I'm on a budget. I buy whatever's cheap and decent-quality, I can't afford to have a social conscience.

I agree with the person above who basically said 'even if I became vegan, that isn't going to stop brutality against these animals'. I stick by that statement - for every vegan out there, there's 1500 carnivores, and a new one is born every minute. These people, for whatever reason, choose to eat meat and most choose not to even think about where it comes from. Farmers who mistreat their cattle are always going to exist, as politicians who would make laws to prevent it tend to be conservative and think of meat-eating as natural and healthy, and vegans as smelly, weird hippies that don't deserve any attention.

I totally respect others' choice to not eat meat or meat products, but I personally choose to eat meat, for several reasons, and I will be raising my children the same, it's pretty much that simple. If and when they are old enough, they can explore other dietary options, but I will not be permitting them to become anaemic through vegetarianism as a child - and no, I'll not be 'doing the research' or buying them vitamin supplements - under my roof, they'll abide by my rules, and unless a doctor advises they cut out meat, they'll be eating roast pork and lamb chops with my husband and I.

XD Sorry, I had to add this on

I TOTALLY just read like, 4 newspaper articles on babies dying because of vegan parents taking dairy, meat, and eggs from their diet. I think it's sad how mindlessly selfish some people can be.

i agree...i mean im a vegetarian but i dont think that if parents are vegetarians or vegans they should automatically MAKE their child be that. that's their personal decision. being vegetarian or vegan is a very personal decision and u base it on personal thoughts or feelings. if that child grew up to like meat or dairy then u should let them eat it, and as a baby, they need that nutrition...come on!
<333 XD
Caity

I know that you can buy meat which is from 'happy cows' and that is so much better than some other manufactured meat, from mistreated cows. But as a person I choose not to eat another living creature. yes i know it may not be 'natural' and that is perfectly fine with me. even though i may only be 14, i've discussed my vegetarianism with my doctor, and i'm making sure i'm getting a balanced diet.

Okay... about veganism being unhealthy.

First off, I'm vegan and have been for a half a year.I'm not that scrawny stereotypical vegan who survives off of a handful of almonds every day. I eat a wide variety of fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes. In no way do I ever have to "calculate" my diet. I just make sure that I get enough calories every day... which isn't hard at all. I also exercise every day by taking a walk or riding a bike.

Ever since I've been vegan my skin has cleared up, I've felt a whole lot healthier, and in no way do I get sick easily. If I ever get a cold... which I haven't since I've been vegan, it only ends up being a runny nose for a day or two. One time, everyone around me had the flu, and I didn't get it!

I'm also not loaded down on supplements. I only take one multivitamin a day and thats it. I don't eat any morningstar stuff... seeing as they're all egg based and do cook for myself a lot... but I've learned that cooking for yourself can be very fun and rewarding. In being vegan, I've started eating a lot more than I gave up. I've ended up eating things I'd never thought I'd even get near like tempeh, tvp, seiten, and tons of Indian and Asian food!

I"m also not that stereotypical PETA loving girl. I hate PETA. They're really hypocritical and kill thousands of animals.