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Ignore Alien Orders
Salute You in Your Grave
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 2026 | July 19th, 2007 at 08:26pm
As a vegan, I eat a much wider variety of foods than I ever did before. I've had a few health issues, but they've been few and far between and had nothing to do with my diet.
Really you don't have to calculate anything--if you looked at a meat-eater's diet, they'd probably be deficient in a few nutrients as well, just not to the level where it's dangerous. I mostly just eat what I want to--lots of salads, whole grain breads and bagels, homemade and store bought veggie burgers, potatoes, soy milk, cereal...it's not unhealthy as long as you make an effort to keep it that way, and that's the same amount of effort everyone should put in their diets really.
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Megan Vegantoast
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 1173 | July 19th, 2007 at 09:58pm A lot of times when I come here, I hear people saying that parents shouldn't force their diet onto the child... but doesn't that mean that omnivore parents shouldn't make they're kids eat meat?
Its up to the parents to watch their kids nutrition and the kids ALWAYS end up eating like the parents do. My parents ate healthy food and I ate healthy food... though, when I got older, I chose to be different than my omni parents.
Vegan diets can be just as healthful for kids. They can grow as fast or faster than omni kids and be just as strong. Go google it! There are charts out there telling parents what their kids need. there are pictures and stories about healthy vegan children! This is not a new concept, people.
So, think. Should omnivore parents "force" their diet on kids like vegan parents do? Isn't either way just the parents caring about the kid?
Oh, another thing, that case where the parents put the child on a "vegan" diet of soy milk and apple juice? That's nowhere near a vegan diet! All vegan parents should breast feed they're kids for at least 16 months and then start slowly introducing solid foods during the last 6 months. Why didn't they? Because they were uneducated. |
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1067 | July 19th, 2007 at 10:36pm BAH! Delete! Double poooost |
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1067 | July 19th, 2007 at 10:39pm I can pull up quite a few articles on babies dying from malnutrition based on Vegan diets. Once a child is older, they can start to intake foods based on other diets, but it's unsafe to raise a very small child on a vegan diet.
Raising a child an omivore gives the child more of an option though. They get the chance to sample all sorts of food before they make a life choice. It's like raising a kid as an agnostic: when they are older, they can chose their own religion. I would never raise a child vegan or as a carnivore, not just because BOTH are health risky, but BOTH edit out options that a kid can have.
As for meat being unhealthy, or your physical health being better after you ditched meat, that's all crapola. I said this before, meat diets are actually very very good for you..so how can meat be bad?
This is how: Meat X Starch. and Meat X Fried. the combos are terrible. Meat is full of wonderful and healthy things, but when fried, those are taken out, and when combined with starch, it's processed in the body slower (hence the myth that meat makes you fat)
It doesn't. My mother is on an all meat diet and is much more healthy then she has ever been, even when she tried various "rabbit food diets".
Because veganism, like any meat diet, is INDEED a diet, it can be executed in a productive or poor way. When people talk about "sickly vegans", it's not because it's funny, it's because when one goes against our natural omivore structure, you have to do it the right way or it IS unhealthy. this is the same with anyone who tries to be a carnivore (or close to one on a diet)
Now about being sick and having zits, that has NOTHING to do with being vegan. Im assuming you are saying those things come from dairy (that's a myth about dairy I hear a lot) It's wrong. I almost never eat dairy. I hate it unless mixed the right way (Mac and Cheese, Pizza, icecream..that's about it) and I have a terrible face. I tried veganism once and my face did not clear up at all.
Some people just happen to produce more natural oils then others, and oil in food doesn't help. Im sure the reason your skin clearned up had to do with the fewer amount of fried foods you ate, which is good for you.
Once again, the best thing for you is a heathy mix of all intake (BESIDES SUGAR!) Don't ever try to convince anyone to go veg/ go veg for health benefits, because there arn't any really. It's all a matter of how you manage your diet, because for every healthy veg/meat dieter there is, there are probably 10 more that are weaker and less healthy then a normal omnivore.
Also..do you know where anti meat and anti dairy studies started coming out from?
The animal rights movement
Ironic. |
Millstone
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 1027 | July 19th, 2007 at 11:12pm I really think you can live a healthy lifestyle as a meat eater or a vegan. Most vegans and vegetarians know that not eating meat is not going to stop anything. The thought of eating a animal is disgusting to them. It's up to everyone to choose what's best for them. Like a diet that made someone lose 30 pounds might make me gain 30 pounds. Everyone's body is different and what works for you might not work for me. It's almost kinda silly to discuss this. No one is going to change anyone's mind. 
I love meat. In fact I want a hamburger right now however this does not mean I don't care about how the animals are killed. I believe animals shouldn't be tortured or be injected with any type of growth hormones. If an opportunity comes up for to help this cause I take it. So it is possible to eat meat and still care about animals. |
your grandmother
Jazz Hands
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Posts: 329 | July 19th, 2007 at 11:15pm MrRandomGuy:I see no sense in eating only vegetables and having to take tons of vitamins (and I know people who do that) when you can just eat the meat and not have to take the vitamins.
vegetarians don't have to JUST eat vegetables, i'm a vegetarian. & i eat soy products, & junk food XD |
Megan Vegantoast
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 1173 | July 20th, 2007 at 05:05am LoversHeartDisease:I can pull up quite a few articles on babies dying from malnutrition based on Vegan diets. Once a child is older, they can start to intake foods based on other diets, but it's unsafe to raise a very small child on a vegan diet.
Raising a child an omivore gives the child more of an option though. They get the chance to sample all sorts of food before they make a life choice. It's like raising a kid as an agnostic: when they are older, they can chose their own religion. I would never raise a child vegan or as a carnivore, not just because BOTH are health risky, but BOTH edit out options that a kid can have.
As for meat being unhealthy, or your physical health being better after you ditched meat, that's all crapola. I said this before, meat diets are actually very very good for you..so how can meat be bad?
This is how: Meat X Starch. and Meat X Fried. the combos are terrible. Meat is full of wonderful and healthy things, but when fried, those are taken out, and when combined with starch, it's processed in the body slower (hence the myth that meat makes you fat)
It doesn't. My mother is on an all meat diet and is much more healthy then she has ever been, even when she tried various "rabbit food diets".
Because veganism, like any meat diet, is INDEED a diet, it can be executed in a productive or poor way. When people talk about "sickly vegans", it's not because it's funny, it's because when one goes against our natural omivore structure, you have to do it the right way or it IS unhealthy. this is the same with anyone who tries to be a carnivore (or close to one on a diet)
Now about being sick and having zits, that has NOTHING to do with being vegan. Im assuming you are saying those things come from dairy (that's a myth about dairy I hear a lot) It's wrong. I almost never eat dairy. I hate it unless mixed the right way (Mac and Cheese, Pizza, icecream..that's about it) and I have a terrible face. I tried veganism once and my face did not clear up at all.
Some people just happen to produce more natural oils then others, and oil in food doesn't help. Im sure the reason your skin clearned up had to do with the fewer amount of fried foods you ate, which is good for you.
Once again, the best thing for you is a heathy mix of all intake (BESIDES SUGAR!) Don't ever try to convince anyone to go veg/ go veg for health benefits, because there arn't any really. It's all a matter of how you manage your diet, because for every healthy veg/meat dieter there is, there are probably 10 more that are weaker and less healthy then a normal omnivore.
Also..do you know where anti meat and anti dairy studies started coming out from?
The animal rights movement
Ironic.
Well, when I was an omnivore, I ate really healthily.. well... from your stand on this argument I did. I NEVER ate fast food. I've always hated it.
Now, I have a few questions for you.
1. How long were you vegan?
2. What did you eat?
You mentioned that you used to be vegan and I understand some people's faces wouldn't clear up, but mine did. That's all.
Now, lets consider that everyone is made different and we're all not exact cookie cutter copies of each other. Some people need more vegetables, some need more meat. Just like some people do GREAT on a vegan diet, and some fail at it even if they're making an effort to be healthy. I obviously didn't do too great on an omni diet but I do really well on a vegan diet.Lets take your mom for an example. Her body more readily processes meat, while mine more readily processes plants.
Now, veganism can be healthy for some people because, Obviously Carl Lewis, an Olympic gold medalist, is really fit and healthy. He quoted
"My best year of track was the first year I ate a vegan diet, Moreover, by continuing to eat a vegan diet, my weight is under control, I like the way I look... I enjoy eating more, and I feel great."
He's won nine gold medals.
Well, back on topic.. kinda... as for the whole me being healthier thing being "crapola", explain why i felt like I had more energy and felt I could think clearer? Maybe my body is more fit to veganism than omnivorism.
QuoteRaising a child an omnivore gives the child more of an option though. They get the chance to sample all sorts of food before they make a life choice. It's like raising a kid as an agnostic: when they are older, they can chose their own religion. I would never raise a child vegan or as a carnivore, not just because BOTH are health risky, but BOTH edit out options that a kid can have.
If the kid gets a nutritionist and the parents KNOW what they're doing, then the child can grow up healthy. But, it can only happen if the parents are willing to invest some time in their child. They have to really pay attention to the nutrients.
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/realveganchildren
http://www.veganoutreach.org/articles/vegankid.html
As for a carnivore diet? Though, I've never considered that anyone would want to eat nothing but meat I really don't see how thats healthy. Seeing as a huge excess of meat can cause all sorts of health problems and the excess of protein gets turned into fat. That would be a risky diet. I'm not sure how you would survive on that without getting heart disease, cancer, and blood problems. |
m45tq
Awake and Unafraid
Age: 98
Gender: Female
Posts: 11447 | July 20th, 2007 at 05:12am I don't really understand veganism, because cows have to be milked in order to survive, and chickens lay eggs naturally. I don't really get it at all, but it's their choice, really, and I respect that. |
jace wayland.
Shotgun Sinner
Age: -
Gender: -
Posts: 7139 | July 20th, 2007 at 05:27am new york cassie.:I don't really understand veganism, because cows have to be milked in order to survive, and chickens lay eggs naturally. I don't really get it at all, but it's their choice, really, and I respect that.
It's the way the chickens and cows are treated. The cows are basically breed until bodies go out. They have their young taken away causing stress to both the calf and the cow. The chickens are shocked if they don't lay enough eggs I believe they also have their beaks cut off so they don't peak each other.
Again not all farms are like that but if your buying your milk and eggs from a grocery store the more likely chance is that they are.
I also like the fact that your not pushing you opinions on people by saying that you respect their decisions. Alot of the kids at school shove it in your face that I'm vegetarian it's not even like I bother them about it. |
Megan Vegantoast
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 1173 | July 20th, 2007 at 05:32am Cows produce milk for they're calves (baby cows) and Chickens produce unfertilized eggs which they don't have to care for.. they're not treated well nevertheless. |
Ignore Alien Orders
Salute You in Your Grave
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 2026 | July 20th, 2007 at 05:35am LoversHeartDisease:I can pull up quite a few articles on babies dying from malnutrition based on Vegan diets. Once a child is older, they can start to intake foods based on other diets, but it's unsafe to raise a very small child on a vegan diet.
Raising a child an omivore gives the child more of an option though. They get the chance to sample all sorts of food before they make a life choice. It's like raising a kid as an agnostic: when they are older, they can chose their own religion. I would never raise a child vegan or as a carnivore, not just because BOTH are health risky, but BOTH edit out options that a kid can have.
As for meat being unhealthy, or your physical health being better after you ditched meat, that's all crapola. I said this before, meat diets are actually very very good for you..so how can meat be bad?
This is how: Meat X Starch. and Meat X Fried. the combos are terrible. Meat is full of wonderful and healthy things, but when fried, those are taken out, and when combined with starch, it's processed in the body slower (hence the myth that meat makes you fat)
It doesn't. My mother is on an all meat diet and is much more healthy then she has ever been, even when she tried various "rabbit food diets".
Because veganism, like any meat diet, is INDEED a diet, it can be executed in a productive or poor way. When people talk about "sickly vegans", it's not because it's funny, it's because when one goes against our natural omivore structure, you have to do it the right way or it IS unhealthy. this is the same with anyone who tries to be a carnivore (or close to one on a diet)
Now about being sick and having zits, that has NOTHING to do with being vegan. Im assuming you are saying those things come from dairy (that's a myth about dairy I hear a lot) It's wrong. I almost never eat dairy. I hate it unless mixed the right way (Mac and Cheese, Pizza, icecream..that's about it) and I have a terrible face. I tried veganism once and my face did not clear up at all.
Some people just happen to produce more natural oils then others, and oil in food doesn't help. Im sure the reason your skin clearned up had to do with the fewer amount of fried foods you ate, which is good for you.
Once again, the best thing for you is a heathy mix of all intake (BESIDES SUGAR!) Don't ever try to convince anyone to go veg/ go veg for health benefits, because there arn't any really. It's all a matter of how you manage your diet, because for every healthy veg/meat dieter there is, there are probably 10 more that are weaker and less healthy then a normal omnivore.
Also..do you know where anti meat and anti dairy studies started coming out from?
The animal rights movement
Ironic.
Really? Cause the American Heart Society, my doctor, my biology teacher and my food and fitness teacher all said otherwise. And don't try to tell me what goes on with my body--when I finally made an effort to be a real vegan, not just a junk food vegan, my skin got a bit clearer--genetically i have acne problems, but they're nowhere near as bad as they were before--I stopped getting cramps, I got sick less often, and I just felt better overall.
If I were to have kids, I'd raise them at least as vegetarians--if for no other reason than that I know the nutrition for vegetarians and vegans front and back and would know what they're eating.
Besides, omnivores are designed to operate on any level of the food chain or any combination thereof; choosing one to stick with isn't going against anything.
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thank fsm.
In The Murder Scene
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 20564 | July 20th, 2007 at 05:36am If I'm buying food for my kid, they're gonna be vegan. Sorry.  |
DIE! DIE! DIE!
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1067 | July 20th, 2007 at 05:59am A lot of it has to do with the conditions the animals are raised.
EDIT: Like, 5 people replied to this thread while I was typing this. Sorry to skip over you, but I would rather discuss with one person at a time. Some of the arguments you have made may be included in this post as well.
Once again, im sorry guy!
Questulation ansulations:
I tried the whole deal for a few months, and I can't really remember when my intake was (I was around 13 or 14 when I did it) but I followed all the reccomended diets I could come across
I really do believe that ant diet, veg or carnivore, can be good for someone based on the fact that one is paying more attention to what they are eating, but as far as humans and their intake levels, I would adore to read some studies on that. If your right and it means as much as you say, the American diet could be revolutionized (im not kidding)
I think any diet can work if parents pay close attention, but theres a good example of why it's less appealing to raise a child on a *insert meat/veg diet here* Clearly, it's unnatural. Why risk it when you can nurture your kids without the hassle.
A lot of Vegans (not you at all, but some people here) seem to say that it's ignorant to eat meat..well I say it;' ignorant to deny your children OPTIONS as to what they are going to eat. Those who say they are raising their children vegan are forcing that as much on thir children as many adults force religion on their children.
A "carnivore" diet isn't exactly all but meat (I should have clarified that..my mistake  )
It's a diet that relies heavily on meat, assuming that is 70-90% of your intake depending on you as a person and what your following, but different meat has different vitimins and suppliments. Also, RED meat is really what you should watch out for, and is that which is allied with the health problems,
I pulled this up from the web, and found it to be rather interesting. I think you will too. It looks reliable, and I think these people can explain things much better then I
http://www.handbag.com/healthfit/diet/veggievsmeat/
So what? It seems like I am being jumped on a lot on this thread. I want y'all to know that I am not trying to tell anyone to stop practicing veganism. People can do what they want, but I hate many of the things that vegans have to say about meat and meat eaters. I wanted to punch Quinn Allman when he spoke in that PETard video clip, I hate PCRM, yadda yadda. What im trying to get across is there is nothing wrong with eating meat, and while veganism might work for some people, it's not some sort of godsent diet. Its not perfect, and its not natural. |
Cigarettes And Suicide
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 1725 | July 20th, 2007 at 06:12am Topher Grace.:If I'm buying food for my kid, they're gonna be vegan. Sorry. All health aspects aside, I just don't think that kind of attitude is fair - as a parent, you should be exposing your child to all kinds of different foods in order to allow them to develop their own tastes and preferences. By all means, give them soy or rice milk when they're old enough, or tofurkey burgers or whatever the hell it is vegans eat (I have no idea, pretty much everything I can think of contains animal products or derivatives so I can't say one way or another what to serve your kids), but alternate it with full-cream milk, encourage them to try steak or chicken if you eat at a restaurant (if, like me, you're not terribly keen on the sight/smell/texture of raw meat and therefore won't cook it at home - my husband has to do all the slicing and dicing because the sight of a slab of rump steak makes me green around the gills, however when cooked thoroughly it's a dream come true for my tastebuds), let them put a carton of eggs in the trolley when doing grocery shopping and make them scrambled eggs (and you can easily buy free-range at a supermarket or find someone locally, perhaps at a farmer's market etc, who sells eggs from their own chickens, as they're almost guaranteed to be 'happy' chickens)... Just don't restrict their dietary options until they're old enough to choose for themselves.
By all means, keep them away from disgusting things like KFC and greasy takeaway, a lot of that stuff is more fat and recycled cardboard than meat anyway - but at least let your kids make a choice rather than forcing yours onto them, especially as vegetarian/vegan diets are quite restricted and can make a child's life very hard when eating lunch at school, going to birthday parties (where you can almost guarantee that the birthday cake and treats will have animal products or otherwise be non-vegan), slumber parties where they get in trouble because they refuse to eat the food the host has cooked for them, etc.
Kids are fussy enough as it is, so restricting their diets so drastically is just asking for trouble as far as I'm concerned. I've said it before, a lot of small kids will go through phases where they are so fussy their parents nearly tear their hair out with frustration, and these are kids who have a huge wealth of food to pick from. I just don't see why you'd cut out so many choices on a selfish whim and possibly allow your child to suffer - they don't understand animal rights or whatever stance you have on choosing a vegan diet - they just know that all the other kids get to eat this, that and the other, and for some weird reason, they're not allowed to. It's frustrating and unfair. |
Millstone
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 1027 | July 20th, 2007 at 07:07am I see nothing wrong with parents having their kids eat only a vegetarian or vegan diet. Parents are there to guide their kids on what they think is right. When they're on their teens, sure they can make the decisions of what they think is best for them. But until that time my kids will eat whatever I want them to eat. Kids are raised according to their parent's lifestyle and if veganism is apart of that lifestyle they will follow that. Just like a person will be raised with their parents religion or morals.
I couldn't dress up for Halloween as a child because of my parent's christian values. Sure I was really bummed in 1st grade when I was the only one not in costume but I got over it. My kids will go trick or treating and dress up if they want. In end however one is raised they will ultimately make the decision for themselves. |
Ignore Alien Orders
Salute You in Your Grave
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 2026 | July 20th, 2007 at 07:32am Cigarettes And Suicide:Topher Grace.:If I'm buying food for my kid, they're gonna be vegan. Sorry. All health aspects aside, I just don't think that kind of attitude is fair - as a parent, you should be exposing your child to all kinds of different foods in order to allow them to develop their own tastes and preferences. By all means, give them soy or rice milk when they're old enough, or tofurkey burgers or whatever the hell it is vegans eat (I have no idea, pretty much everything I can think of contains animal products or derivatives so I can't say one way or another what to serve your kids), but alternate it with full-cream milk, encourage them to try steak or chicken if you eat at a restaurant (if, like me, you're not terribly keen on the sight/smell/texture of raw meat and therefore won't cook it at home - my husband has to do all the slicing and dicing because the sight of a slab of rump steak makes me green around the gills, however when cooked thoroughly it's a dream come true for my tastebuds), let them put a carton of eggs in the trolley when doing grocery shopping and make them scrambled eggs (and you can easily buy free-range at a supermarket or find someone locally, perhaps at a farmer's market etc, who sells eggs from their own chickens, as they're almost guaranteed to be 'happy' chickens)... Just don't restrict their dietary options until they're old enough to choose for themselves.
By all means, keep them away from disgusting things like KFC and greasy takeaway, a lot of that stuff is more fat and recycled cardboard than meat anyway - but at least let your kids make a choice rather than forcing yours onto them, especially as vegetarian/vegan diets are quite restricted and can make a child's life very hard when eating lunch at school, going to birthday parties (where you can almost guarantee that the birthday cake and treats will have animal products or otherwise be non-vegan), slumber parties where they get in trouble because they refuse to eat the food the host has cooked for them, etc.
Kids are fussy enough as it is, so restricting their diets so drastically is just asking for trouble as far as I'm concerned. I've said it before, a lot of small kids will go through phases where they are so fussy their parents nearly tear their hair out with frustration, and these are kids who have a huge wealth of food to pick from. I just don't see why you'd cut out so many choices on a selfish whim and possibly allow your child to suffer - they don't understand animal rights or whatever stance you have on choosing a vegan diet - they just know that all the other kids get to eat this, that and the other, and for some weird reason, they're not allowed to. It's frustrating and unfair.
It's not a selfish whim. Vegans especially are doing this for moral reasons, and no decent parent I know would allow a child to do something against their morals. Sometimes it gets out of line, sure, but veganism for kids isn't. I know an entire family of kids who were raised vegan by their vegan mother, and they're perfectly healthy and happy. If and when I have kids, I'll let them decide when they're old enough, the same way most omnivore parents say they'll allow their children to choose vegetarianism or veganism when they're old enough.
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DIE! DIE! DIE!
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1067 | July 20th, 2007 at 07:49am NO. There is a difference. Being raised Vegan, a child has no idea what the other side is like. They are not exposed, therefore much less likely to make a choice based on free will more more likely to make it on the fact that they have never tried meat. At least being raised omnivore, your not ignorant to your choices, and get a taste for all things. It sounds more of a selfish whim to me as well. |
Ignore Alien Orders
Salute You in Your Grave
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 2026 | July 20th, 2007 at 07:55am
How is raising a child with the morals you yourself have selfish? If that's what you believe is right and you want the best for your child, then clearly you're going to want your children to do what's right. It's the same as parents raising children in their religions. At a certain age they'll make their own choice--usually around 12 or 13--but before then, it's the parents' obligation to expose their children to their own morals.
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Millstone
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 1027 | July 20th, 2007 at 07:58am In that case every parents should show their kids every type of lifestyle because they need to be exposed to everything to make a decision about things?! |
Megan Vegantoast
Bleeding on the Floor
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 1173 | July 20th, 2007 at 08:00am I can see you're point of view... it may be selfish... but it is ultimately up to the parents. We're not going to be able to make it illegal for people to bring up vegan children... unless more idoits try to do it the apple juice way (haha, thats becoming some sort of joke...)
I read that website. I like how you chose a generally unbiased site. Though, I do think it kinda over exagerated the deficiancies...for the most part if you just take a multivitamin your fine.
In my own honest opinion... I think that its fine to eat however you want. If people want to eat meat, then go ahead. If they want to eat McDonalds every day, be my guest. If you want to be vegan, great.
I do, though, find it very ironic that we're all debating whether or not eating meat is unnatural when really, we're all unnatural people. I don't see animals deabating how much iron or B-12 they need to get, or whether low carb is better than low fat... just something I've noticed. |
