Homosexual Rights.

From what I understand, Kate was agreeing with you, Deb.

My apologies, Kate <hugs>

I am just so over people whimpering about what God wants as an excuse to try and force their way upon others. Why can't we all just leave each other alone? If no one is being injured, what business is it of ours how someone else wants to live their life?

Exactly, thats what I was saying. I don't see why your getting funny with me because I'm on the same side, I'm against homophobia! And so are you so why are we the ones arguing, I don't get it.
Aaanyway, it's true because when my dad read that in "The God Delusion" he checked it up in the bible and its there. And that was in the modern looking one my sisters got a few years ago when they were considering being religious. It mentions all the people that should be stoned to death, men who lie down with other men, adulterers, women or men who do stuff with animals etc etc and all their various punishments. Its pretty medieval tbh.

I'll get the reference later if you want to check it for yourself

^ I wasn't aiming anything at you personally, Ash, I was just explaining my frustration in general with the Religious Right and their continued sway over Legislature despite our strict policy against that. If the reference is in there, that's very unfortunate - I still agree with the dude who said that the references are being taken out of context, however.

Deb:

My apologies, Kate <hugs>

I am just so over people whimpering about what God wants as an excuse to try and force their way upon others. Why can't we all just leave each other alone? If no one is being injured, what business is it of ours how someone else wants to live their life?

It's ok, I was just pointing out that the Bible can be used to enforce stupid rules, but people ignore them to use it for prejudice.

Even my strict Catholic ex-teacher agreed Leviticus was full of shit. He read us a passage about cleansing your house of leprosy by throing bird blood at the walls. Sorry now I'm just ranting about religion.

Well I don't see really how it is out of context, because a line like that, no matter what context, is homophobic isn't it. In what context could that not be against gay people, to say that men who sleep with each other should be killed?
What I find interesting though is that it says nothing about women who sleep together. But that's probably because even in Mary [The mary who was Elizabeths sister] didn't acknowledge lesbians because she didn't think they existed. And theres men like that now, who think lesbians are just women who haven't had a good man yet D:<
Just for the record I'm not a lesbian, just ignorant people make me angry lol.

Ash-Peters:

Well I don't see really how it is out of context, because a line like that, no matter what context, is homophobic isn't it. In what context could that not be against gay people, to say that men who sleep with each other should be killed?

When I say that I am referring to the article I posted in which the theologian is stating that he believes the Bible was objecting to the practice of idolatry - which appeared to go hand in hand with public displays of affection among males - not necessarily to the act of sodomy itself, although he admits that it's not that clear. I have explained this repeatedly already.

People should be able to have rights even if they're gay. As long as they're honest to eachother. It's not going to make anyones life better to take away the rights of others. And I believe that some people are predisposed to a higher chance of being gay, but I think that how they grow up and their mindsets control that. I heard that there is actually a gene that puts people at a hiher chance of being gay. And homosexuality is natural if you think about. I heard once in a movie ( a fact) that there are certain species of animals that sometimes mate with the same gender. The list of species includes manatees, as well as humans

I think that one of the main reasons gay marriage isn't legal is because of religion. Other than the whole, "It's wrong!" argument, the only excuse I've ever heard apposing gay marriage has to do with the Bible and religion. First of all, the Bible states that every person have equal rights no matter what. And second of all, I think the Constitution states that religion shouldn't be brought into politics, which is what's happening. So really, in my eyes, there's no reason homosexual people shouldn't be able to get married.

Also, as stated above, homosexuality IS natural. Manatees, humans, and I believe a type of penguin all mate with members of the same gender.

Animals of all different species mates with members of the same sex. Not every single animal in that species of course, otherwise they'd be extinct. But as with humans, some individual animals will be attracted to the same sex, proven scientific fact.

Thought this was an interesting contributor to the discussion.

Deb:

It actually says this? I'd like to see that for myself.

Yes, it does say this. It states in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 as well as comparing homosexuals to theives.

Here is another article on the subject, and Jon Stewart and Mike Huckabee debating about it. I keep posting these because it is becoming very apparent to me that the issue of what the Bible teaches is NOT all that clear, even to theologians.

Oh is it not? I haven't read the entire thing, I don't intend to lol. But I do keep hearing quotes of reeeally homophobic things the bible has said which are definately homophobic e.g the example I gave of killing men who have slept with each other.
But they do contradict themselves frequently by saying things about how all people are equal and god loves everyone and then condemning certain people, it's so silly!
Also I know this doesn't belong here but while we're on the subject of animals, what really annoys me with the christian religion [I'm not sure if others religions believe this] is that they say animals don't have a soul so they all go to hell. Or something along those lines, it says animals don't have a soul anyway. My sister had this huge arguement with her religious friend over this recently cos we are an animal-loving family ^_^ lol.

Ash-Peters:

But they do contradict themselves frequently by saying things about how all people are equal and god loves everyone and then condemning certain people, it's so silly! Also I know this doesn't belong here but while we're on the subject of animals, what really annoys me with the christian religion [I'm not sure if others religions believe this] is that they say animals don't have a soul so they all go to hell.

I think that the animal soul discussion should actually take place in the Religion thread rather than in here Yes, the Bible is fraught with contradictions - probably why people might now want to take it so literally, eh?

Yarr I know lol, we don't need to discuss that, just wanted to mention it while I was on my religion rant =P haha.
Yeah exactly, the complete religious nuts, and tbf there aren't many in comparison with how many christians there are, are just that, they are mental. When i say religious nuts, I mean the few people that actually believe the literal truth and every word of the bible. Most people do pick and choose what they believe from it. I was talking to my dad about the Adam and Eve thing and people believing literal truths because I said that if you take it literally, with the whole "not allowed to eat from the tree of knowledge" thing, basically god is saying he didn't want them to have any knowledge or know about anything. Which you'd have to be pretty silly to accept.

Aaaanyway I'm going a little off topic here =P

Oooh I know how to bring it back.
I love gay men right, and especially lately I have been meeting or talking to a lot of gay men and getting more gay male friends. I have this one friend from America who I really like (as a friend) and we always tell each other we love each other and stuff and I tend to tell a lot of people I know some of the cute stuff he says and this usually leads on to talking about gay men in general. For instance if I am talking to a male usually they will say something about not liking gay men or make a face or whatever if I say I love gay men. So I'm like, oh, homophobic are you? And I know sooooooooooo many people who have said "no no i'm not homophobic I don't have a problem with gay men, I just don't like the ones that act like girls". Well to me thats a silly statement because that is pretty much most gay men. And why the problem with the men being feminine? Why does it bother you? The simple fact is that it is a biological reason why men are gay. They don't choose to be, one of the reasons why a man can turn out gay is because they receive a higher than usual amount of the female hormone (oestrogen I think) while they are in the mothers womb. So therefore does it not follow that not only will that man fancy men [the gender that women usually fancy] but he will be more like a woman himself?
And I have also heard "yeah but why do they have to act like that? They're still a bloke", it's like..riiiiiight and why does being a "bloke" mean you have to act all macho? Why can't a straight man act feminine etc etc
It's just silly in my eyes, I don't see why people can't act how they want to act or feel like acting.
Discuss =) haha.

exile in guyville.:

I wouldn't say most gay men are effeminate.

I wouldn't either. Also, not all effeminate men are gay.