Vegetarianism/veganism.

ChipmunkOnKetamine:

but eggs are like, hen's periods. They are going to lay them anyway. I don't think hens really expect to have all their eggs fertilized, like a woman doesn't expect to have all here eggs fertilized. Then again, I don't know how hen's minds work.

xDD right again. However, the eggs we pass during our periods do not any longer have the potential to become more, and we do not expect them to be so. Can we say the same for the hen? They lay them to be fertilized; it is in their instincts to expect that, and we know that much.

That is why the best way to get a hen to lay is by bringing around the rooster - why lay the eggs, says the hen, if there is nobody around to make them into my baby little chickies?

I edit my posts a lot, sorry.

^ osteoporosis generally develops in later life, and is more prevalent in women, although it can develop at a younger age, although this is rare.

Foible.:

Obviously, no one can say for sure, but I'm pretty sure hens don't go into their coops and cry when they don't see their eggs there, or bees when their honey is stolen.:/

Of course not. But is it not sad that they keep trying and trying in vain?

I suppose not to some.

I usually stay away from people who are religious in this debate, because I am not sure what to make of higher powers, so I can't really participate. Sorry to try and make an explanation up there; it's a school of thought I wanted to present.

Foible.:

The animals are not being hurt. Obviously, no one can say for sure, but I'm pretty sure hens don't go into their coops and cry when they don't see their eggs there, or bees when their honey is stolen.:/

Animals ARE being hurt.

Hens aren't sad about eggs. That's not why people become vegan.
People become vegan, if for ethical reasons, because of the way hens are treated.
It's not like most farms let them roam around, and most places where eggs come from don't even HAVE coops. Unless they're free-range, which is a small fraction of eggs.

Hens are shoved in small cages, with barely any room, and usually their wings are clipped. It's the TREATMENT of the animal.

rukan:

It's the TREATMENT of the animal.

This is very true.

The reason I only quoted ^that part was because most people who eat meat sometimes have the idea that people choose not to eat meat due to the actual killing of the animal.

I can say that for me, that isn't true; it isn't about the actual slaughter of the animal. It's more about the way it is treated before it is slaughtered that I am vehemently against in the meat industry.

I can't say the same for every vegetarian and vegan, but that's what I feel at least.

techno cocaine.:

CarcinogenCrush:

*rant mode*
People *should* feel guilty for eating meat, people should stop before they take a bite of chicken or steak and think- this is the same as eating my pet dog. Chickens are the most abused animals on this planet- if that what was done to them was done to dogs/cats, it would be ILLEGAL. Cows are hung by their feet and their throats are cut while they are still ALIVE so that the average American can have a hamburger when they could easily eat anything else... that doesn't seem fair to me. I'm vegan, and the thought of eating meat/cheese/animal products in general completely sickens me. A), it's unhealthy- milk, for instance, contains bacteria, hormones, pus, blood. No being from another species would NATURALLY drink from another species!!. B), those animals are tortured. The average pig is as smart as the average three year old. If you want to eat a toddler, go ahead. To me, slaughtering animals and eating them is the same as taking a bite out of your mother or your sibling. You are a murderer, plain and simple, if you eat animal products, whether you kill the animal or not. Everyone knows what these animals go through, but they EAT THEM anyway. It's cannibalism. And consuming milk or other dairy products is exactly the same--- if you say that being vegan/vegetarian is unnatural? Mother cows being pumped full of hormones and giving milk constantly is unnatural!
As for getting sick from being vegan/vegetarian. Vegetarians have lower cholesterol, lower chance of dying from a heart-related disease. I've been vegetarian/vegan for almost a year now, and I am perfectly fine. Milk does not prevent osteoporosis, it causes/contributes to it.
To quote Peta, any way you slice it, it's still flesh.

Okay... I'm done now.

As a fellow vegetarian, I respect your point of view.

However...

It's a good idea to also respect other people's dispositions and points of view.
It's also probably a good idea to not tell people that they "should feel guilty" for eating meat". It seems uncalled for, in my opinion.

Not everyone is going to have the same moral stance as you do.
Not everyone agrees with the vegetarian lifestyle, and that's okay.

Humans have eaten meat for time immemorial. And even though I'm a vegetarian, I admit that readily.
Without meat, I don't believe we would have developed as a human race as much as we have, if that makes sense.
There are actually benefits from eating meat.

I know I sound contradictory to my own diet, because I haven't eaten meat for three years now.
But I don't think it's your place to tell people what they should and shouldn't do with their diet.
You I don't feel it is right for you to tell people, "you SHOULD do this", "you SHOULD do that", because I don't feel that's going to get your message across very positively.

And what you are talking about is PETA propaganda, in my opinion.
I actually, personally, dislike PETA, mainly because that organisation is very notorious for being self-righteous and shoving their propaganda down people's throats.
I don't think there's any reason to be aggressive here.

No one, I don't think, is right or wrong in this discussion.
Meat eaters aren't right, vegetarians aren't right, vegans aren't right.
We all have a different philosophy and perspective about the food we consume.

And I must say, not all meat eaters are uncaring about animals.
A lot of people these days eat "ethical" meat, as in, free range meat.

I'm sorry, but it's vegetarians / vegans like you who make the rest of us look bad.
It's fine that you have an opinion on this, but I personally feel that telling people what they "should" do is not helping your argument.

I'm sorry if I seemed like I was telling people what to do; that was entirely my own opinion. And there are as many people who share my views as there are who don't. And I'm sorry, because this is bitchy, but I don't need people to tell me that it's fine if I have an opinion. In that opinion, I think people should feel guilty for eating meat. In my opinion, it's wrong, and that's where it ends for me.
"Ethical meat"... at the risk of seeming like a bitch again, how is eating meat ethical at all? And "free range"- there no set rules by the government for how long those animals are free. It's up to the people who let them out.

CarcinogenCrush:

I'm sorry if I seemed like I was telling people what to do; that was entirely my own opinion. And there are as many people who share my views as there are who don't. And I'm sorry, because this is bitchy, but I don't need people to tell me that it's fine if I have an opinion. In that opinion, I think people should feel guilty for eating meat. In my opinion, it's wrong, and that's where it ends for me.
"Ethical meat"... at the risk of seeming like a bitch again, how is eating meat ethical at all? And "free range"- there no set rules by the government for how long those animals are free. It's up to the people who let them out.

Oh, I'm not doubting it was your opinion, and as I said at the beginning of my post you quoted, I do respect it. But the way you said sounded as though you were telling people what to do instead of voicing your opinion, to me at least (not everyone). You're opening line was "people *should* feel guilty for eating meat", which to me came across as very authoritarian, I'm sorry if that's not what it was intended to be.

And the issue of "ethical meat" is entirely up to interpretation. You see that eating meat full stop is entirely unethical, which is fine, but other's have a different point of view.
For example, my whole family (apart from myself) eats meat, but they buy meat from a specific butcher who specialises in organic and free-range meat. Now, I know free-range food cannot be regulated to the desired degree all the time, but there are some farmers out there who take pride in farming animals in a more "traditional" way - that is, farming them in paddocks, letting them roam freely etc.

I know that doesn't happen with a lot of the meat, but you cannot ignore that some butchers and farmers make an effort to raise and sell free range meat.

What I aforementioned is my definition of ethical meat, but it varies from person to person.

techno cocaine.:

Oh, I'm not doubting it was your opinion, and as I said at the beginning of my post you quoted, I do respect it. But the way you said sounded as though you were telling people what to do instead of voicing your opinion, to me at least (not everyone). You're opening line was "people *should* feel guilty for eating meat", which to me came across as very authoritarian, I'm sorry if that's not what it was intended to be.

It seems to me that people should feel guilty for killing something.

Im veggie,
i belive that harming animals for own benifit is wrong but i do not belive that animals like cows should'nt be used for milk and stuff because as far as i am aware cows arent harmed whilst giving milk, correct me if im wrong there,

i also believe that whether other people eat animals or not is up to them and would never be preachy, being preachy does kind of give other veggies and vegans a bad name, people are aloud free will ,for the moment although its seams that politics could change that,

any opinions that were said in that message were not meaning to offend.

^ cows are often pumped full of hormones in order to make them prodcue more milk that they would normally. Some people would consider this harming them, becuase it isforcing them to do something un-natural. As far as I'm aware it doesn't hurt them to be milked, so in that sense they aren't harmed.

I was having this conversation with a friend at school, it doesn't hurt a cow to be milked, it's kinda like a relief, although being pumped with hormones is kinda wrong. But one question (i'm very unexperienced with animal biology) are cows like humans and only produce milk if they are about to have a calf? or do they produce it all the time?