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Abortions.

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Jesse Lacey;
Awake and Unafraid
Jesse Lacey;
Age: 24
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December 12th, 2009 at 02:11pm
Mindfuck:
Heh, it's reverse psychology.

If you teach kids abstinence, they're probably more likely to have underage sex because they're taught they're not allowed to and it will ruin your life and blah blah blah. It's naughty. They're not "supposed" to do it.

But give them free condoms, and suddenly the mystery behind sex disappears.

I think giving high school kids free condoms is a great idea. Because you're teaching them reality, not some crap about "you shouldn't have sex at this age!!"



I was discussing abortion with my grandmother of all people this afternoon, and she swears and declares she knew a young girl once who traveled here to Australia to have abortions 5 times.

On a different vein of discussion, what do people think about women having multiple abortions? Apparently they can hinder fertility, although I haven't researched that at all, just word of mouth. Do you think there should be a limit?
Well, maybe a woman having abortions should be treated like a kid coming to the emergency room every month for broken bones and bruises- they send someone to investigate and see what's causing this to happen.But no, I don't think there should be a limit.
Cigarettes And Suicide
Bleeding on the Floor
Cigarettes And Suicide
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December 13th, 2009 at 08:31am
^ No, there shouldn't be a limit. There are a multitude of different circumstances that would lead a woman to choose a termination, who are we to say why and how many? I always like to think of it like this: let's just say the maximum number of terminations a woman can have is three (just for kicks). A 17-year-old girl accidentally falls pregnant to her boyfriend because in the heat of the moment, they forget to use protection. Oops. She has a termination and goes on with her life. Then, at the age of 23, she's out jogging in a park near her home, as is her daily routine, and she is sexually assaulted by a stranger. She's single at the time and therefore not using the Pill, and falls pregnant to her attacker. She chooses to terminate. Then, at the age of 27, she is abusing drugs because of the trauma she suffered during and after the rape, and falls pregnant to her junkie boyfriend. She knows full well she's in no state to be a fit mother and has another abortion to save the child a life of misery, if it even makes it to term because of her drug abuse.
And, finally, at the age of 32, she's now clean, married to a nice guy, they decide to start a family. Ultrasound scans show the baby is deverely deformed, has a chromosomal disorder meaning that it will either not survive nine months in utero or will definitely die within hours of birth. The woman is denied the chance to spare herself and her much-wanted child the pain of what's to come, because she's already 'reached her limit'. How unfair is that?

So, yeah, while there might be people out there who use abortions as 'birth control', and I personally may not agree with that, I cannot sit here and say that they should not do that. It's not a choice I would make for myself, but I refuse to impinge on the rights of other women to try and stop 'irresponsible' people from doing as they see fit.
Go fuck yourself
Devil's Got Your Number
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Age: 26
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Posts: 37823
December 13th, 2009 at 04:00pm
I completely agree with Cigarettes and Suicide.

My great grandma had multiple illegal abortions. This was during the great depression, and she was a poor Irish immigrant. She had the abortions cause she was struggling to feed the 3 kids she already had and she knew her family would starve if those babies were born and raised in that family. They were leaving, a family of 5 plus her parents on less then a dollar day for everyone.

This issue has been around for along time. I believe now it should be less of an issue since we have so much more of an understanding. If a person knows "I can't raise a child, I can barely support myself" and she knows being pregnant would make her situation even worse just to give away her baby which may or may not get a family, well why do we expect her to keep it?

I've had a situation before when I was messed, my whole life was a wreck. I almost got pregnant and it wasn't even my choice to have sex. I wasn't even in high school yet. My situation would have been so much worse. Abortion honestly seemed to be my only option. Lucky me I ended up not being pregnant. but that's seriously just cause I lucked out.

After that, I straightened out, and turned my life around. But not everyone does that. If they keep doing what they were doing before and get pregnant again, what makes them the ability now?
LunacyFringe
Killjoy
LunacyFringe
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 82
December 14th, 2009 at 07:11pm
Mindfuck:
Heh, it's reverse psychology.

If you teach kids abstinence, they're probably more likely to have underage sex because they're taught they're not allowed to and it will ruin your life and blah blah blah. It's naughty. They're not "supposed" to do it.

But give them free condoms, and suddenly the mystery behind sex disappears.


So your logic is that if we tell kids to abstain, then they will rebel and go have sex. Can that same logic be applied to murder and theft? Should I not tell my future children thats its wrong to kill people, because they might want to rebel by killing people? That makes no sense. Just because there is a chance that a kid might rebel if you tell them that they shouldnt have sex, doesnt mean you just shouldnt say anything and let them do whatever.
Mindfuck
Always Born a Crime
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December 14th, 2009 at 07:42pm
^But there's a difference between sex and killing someone. Kids aren't dumb like most people think they are, and they know the difference between the two. There is a lot more weight to taking someone's life than there is to having sex with someone, so the two - even for teens - isn't comparable.

By the time kids get to high school - over here it's about 12 or 13 - they already know what sex is. So then teaching them in high school to abstain will likely make them want to have sex more. Because they already know sex is pleasurable and that's what adults do. So they want to do it as well, whether it be to be "cool" or to seem more grown up, or purely because they want to see what it's like or whatever.

So teaching your kid that murdering someone will likely not result in them becoming a mass murderer, because it carries a lot more weight and it isn't something majority of people in society do. But sex is different. Kids know adults have sex all the time. So they want to do it too. No matter how much you try to make them abstain.

We live in a society that is sex saturated, and it's hammered into young people these days that sex is good and okay. So when they hear "sex is bad and you shouldn't do it", a lot of teens will still be likely to try it.
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Always Born a Crime
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May 8th, 2010 at 04:58pm
^ Exactly. I think kids do look up to adults, so when they see them having sex (for a reason, and not usually just to cause pregnancy), many will do the same.
On a different note, I found this Yahoo answers thread about a father's say in abortion. What does everyone think of this?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090131180836AAtIGj4
whipstickagostop;
Like Phantoms, Forever
whipstickagostop;
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May 8th, 2010 at 09:55pm
questionable content:
^ Exactly. I think kids do look up to adults, so when they see them having sex (for a reason, and not usually just to cause pregnancy), many will do the same.
On a different note, I found this Yahoo answers thread about a father's say in abortion. What does everyone think of this?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090131180836AAtIGj4


No, I still think men should not have a say about it being legal, at least. If it's personal, and the woman is with him and knows him, and they're in a relationship together, then yes he should have a say. But I don't think men should decide whether it's legal or not.
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Always Born a Crime
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May 8th, 2010 at 10:07pm
^ Why is that?
Men are affected by abortion as well.
Besides, most lawmakers happen to be male. If abortion laws were put to a vote, then how would that work?

But if it's the man's partner that is having the abortion, should he be able to have any influence other than changing his partner's opinion?
thank fsm.
In The Murder Scene
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May 9th, 2010 at 12:01am
Men deserve to be able to share their opinion, although in the very end it IS a woman's body and I DO believe that an early-term fetus is not a person and therefore is merely a parasite, for lack of a better word, living in a woman so she should have final say in how it's dealt with. If someone is in a relationship, it's never wise to go behind your partner's back about something that serious if they are opposed to it, but I believe that is a manifestation of deeper issues in the relationship.
mindless.
Salute You in Your Grave
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May 9th, 2010 at 03:42pm
^ I agree. An early-term fetus barely has life, so I don't think abortion should be classified as 'murder', and a woman should be able to choose its fate.
Perhaps there should be certain criteria one has to meet in order to have an abortion, because it should not be used as birth-control, as some are and will continue using it as. If a woman gets pregnant and it wasn't due to rape, I think they should go through with having the child and suffering the consequences of their choices.
I also think men should have a say in the legality of abortion based on their position. Should men who don't have a wife or daughter decide this matter? No, I don't think it would be right. Men with families should have an opinion though.
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Always Born a Crime
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May 9th, 2010 at 04:24pm
^ But if the pregnancy wasn't due to rape, and women should "suffer the consequences of their choices", that isn't really choosing its fate.

And what about men with sons? Or men in a long-term relationship?
Does excluding a groups of men based on their marital/paternal status amount to discrimination?
mindless.
Salute You in Your Grave
mindless.
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May 9th, 2010 at 04:31pm
^ When I said choosing it's fate, I meant if a woman had been raped. I didn't mean to contradict myself there.
It does not amount to discrimination, they simply don't have the qualifications to have educated input on the matter.
whipstickagostop;
Like Phantoms, Forever
whipstickagostop;
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May 9th, 2010 at 10:08pm
questionable content:
^ Why is that?
Men are affected by abortion as well.
Besides, most lawmakers happen to be male. If abortion laws were put to a vote, then how would that work?

But if it's the man's partner that is having the abortion, should he be able to have any influence other than changing his partner's opinion?


Mainly because men aren't the ones who get pregnant. They shouldn't have control over someone's body that they don't know. If they want to have a child and get a woman knocked up, she wants to get rid of it but he wants to keep it, that's between them, but legally he shouldn't have a say. Men shouldn't speak for women.
Go fuck yourself
Devil's Got Your Number
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May 10th, 2010 at 12:43am
^ I agree but I also like to play devil's advocate.

What if it was a women who decided to have a child to try and save her doomed relationship. The guy knows there's no way they would be able to properly support the kid. If she's going to such an extreme to save the relationship, obviously that relationship isn't on good grounds, the mother may not be completely stable etc.

I agree to the extent I believe if someone gets pregnant, they should consult with their partner on how they feel. That doesn't mean that the women has to go along with whatever the guy says, it is her body, but she should give him a chance to show his side. From my personal life, I got pregnant right before I turned 16 and my boyfriend and I were both freaking out. He wanted me to get an abortion, but he made it very clear that it was my decision and he's support me no matter what I choose. I really didn't want to go through with having an abortion but it did help alot talking about all the options.
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Always Born a Crime
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May 10th, 2010 at 09:19pm
Dead Little Girl.:
questionable content:
^ Why is that?
Men are affected by abortion as well.
Besides, most lawmakers happen to be male. If abortion laws were put to a vote, then how would that work?

But if it's the man's partner that is having the abortion, should he be able to have any influence other than changing his partner's opinion?


Mainly because men aren't the ones who get pregnant. They shouldn't have control over someone's body that they don't know. If they want to have a child and get a woman knocked up, she wants to get rid of it but he wants to keep it, that's between them, but legally he shouldn't have a say. Men shouldn't speak for women.


Should women speak for other women? Like, if you use the "men can't get pregnant rationale", wouldn't that also apply to sterile or childless women as well?
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Always Born a Crime
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May 10th, 2010 at 09:25pm
My Dear Delirious:
^ I agree but I also like to play devil's advocate.

What if it was a women who decided to have a child to try and save her doomed relationship. The guy knows there's no way they would be able to properly support the kid. If she's going to such an extreme to save the relationship, obviously that relationship isn't on good grounds, the mother may not be completely stable etc.

I agree to the extent I believe if someone gets pregnant, they should consult with their partner on how they feel. That doesn't mean that the women has to go along with whatever the guy says, it is her body, but she should give him a chance to show his side. From my personal life, I got pregnant right before I turned 16 and my boyfriend and I were both freaking out. He wanted me to get an abortion, but he made it very clear that it was my decision and he's support me no matter what I choose. I really didn't want to go through with having an abortion but it did help alot talking about all the options.


It's great that you have such a supportive partner, and I agree--decisions should be made based on mutual consent, but the law is for times when agreements can't be reached.

A question for anyone: If it is the woman's body, should the father have any rights at all? Should he be allowed to "abort" his responsibility to the child?
Go fuck yourself
Devil's Got Your Number
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May 12th, 2010 at 12:43am
oh yeah I'm extremely lucky.

I think if a man gets a women pregnant he can't just get rid of his responsible. Even abortions take a toll on a women, he gets the easy job. I think guys should be morally obligated to at least somewhat uphold some responsible, even if it's just being for the woman after her abortion. I had a miscarriage, and just the lack of that being in you after your body was making all these changes, you go through so much psychologically, I would just randomly start crying and I wouldn't even really know why. There is some degree, you could call it chivalry a man should uphold in the whole process.
whipstickagostop;
Like Phantoms, Forever
whipstickagostop;
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May 12th, 2010 at 10:35pm
questionable content:

Should women speak for other women? Like, if you use the "men can't get pregnant rationale", wouldn't that also apply to sterile or childless women as well?


Well, yeah, because it's more of empathy. A woman can understand women's needs and rights more than a man can.
thank fsm.
In The Murder Scene
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May 12th, 2010 at 10:57pm
You MAY want to rethink your understanding of empathy and the human mind before forming an opinion that large based upon it.
whipstickagostop;
Like Phantoms, Forever
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May 13th, 2010 at 04:53pm
merlin.:
You MAY want to rethink your understanding of empathy and the human mind before forming an opinion that large based upon it.


Yeah I'm bad at explaining. I think I'll leave this thread now...