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Abortions.

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Mindfuck
Always Born a Crime
Mindfuck
Age: -
Gender: Female
Posts: 5614
November 30th, 2009 at 06:50pm
LunacyFringe:
I agree that if abortions were illegal then we would have more unsafe abortions. Im not really about making abortions illegal. Im about preventing them from happening. Prevention is the best thing for everybody. The less people have unplanned pregnancy the less people have abortions. Simple. So I say we stop caring about whether abortion is legal or not and start worrying about preventing pregnancy!
I think we all wish abortion didn't have to happen, but it does. It isn't something we can prevent, and neither is unwanted pregnancy. It's unrealistic to think we can work on prevention, when prevention will never work. Perhaps for some people, but definitely not the whole world population.

Because it isn't something we can prevent, I think abortion should be legal everywhere in the world.
Cigarettes And Suicide
Bleeding on the Floor
Cigarettes And Suicide
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1725
December 1st, 2009 at 07:56pm
LunacyFringe, it would be absolutely wonderful if people were more focused on preventing unwanted pregnancy rather than bitching and hawing about whether or not abortion is murder. I'm vehemently pro-choice, but at the heart of that mindset is the belief that less unwanted pregnancies can only be a great thing - and of course I realise that it's not as simple or clear-cut as 'use protection, shut your legs' etc. As Mindfuck said, though, we don't live in a perfect world and so unfortunately there are always going to be people who need access to plan B, but it's my personal hope that with time, education and open-mindedness, the stigma can be removed from abortion and that people will be able to accept it's a person's right to decide for themselves what is best for them, rather than letting society, the government and the church tell them they cannot be trusted with such an important decision.
teen spirit.
Crash Queen
teen spirit.
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 30661
December 2nd, 2009 at 03:41pm
Lunacyfringe, i have to disagree with your idealist views. abortion is just something that is going to happen. a ban on abortions would only lead to a rise in unsafe abortions and poorly cared-for children.
it's unfortunate that things are that way, but they are.
LunacyFringe
Killjoy
LunacyFringe
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 82
December 2nd, 2009 at 07:46pm
^^ Of course I am aware that abortion is always going to happen. Im saying that our focus should not be on fighting over whether or not abortion is legal or not, and we should put more focus on prevention.

I am against abortion in all circumstances, and I believe that sex was made for marriage. Though I know that most people dont live this way, and so I understand that people are always going to be wanting abortions. Because I know that abortions over time are probably going to become more and more accessible, I would rather spend my time helping people not get pregnant at all, then keep fighting those who are already pregnant.

In the end abstinence is the best prevention. For more then just unwanted pregnancy, but also STD's. Its a shame that people feel like its unrealistic to refrain from sex before marriage, because then much much less people would ever have to stress over these problems.
teen spirit.
Crash Queen
teen spirit.
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 30661
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:17pm
^^well in all fairness people who have sex are usually aware of the risk of pregnancy etc. they're not ignorant of the fact that unprotected sex can cause pregnancy.
but couples might decide they prefer sex without a condom.
people also might not take the pill in advance, perhaps because they don't know they are going to have sex in time to take birth control pills the prescribed amount of days before.
i don't condone unprotected sex in risky situations. but regardless of why people have unprotected sex, it's almost always because they chose to, not out of ignorance. pretty much any teen you ask can tell you that without condoms or birth control, you're more likely to cause a pregnancy.
so ignorance isn't the problem.
and you can't force people not to have unprotected sex.

so there's not a huge amount we can do about unprotected sex as it stands. there is more to be done, but when you consider in just how many places abortions are illegal, legalization of abortions is an area where much more needs to be done.
questionable content
Always Born a Crime
questionable content
Age: 24
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Posts: 5604
December 3rd, 2009 at 02:45pm
^ A significant number of pregnancies occur even when birth control is used, so I don't think it's fair to say that people choose to have unprotected sex because they may think they are protected when in reality they are not.
Mindfuck
Always Born a Crime
Mindfuck
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Posts: 5614
December 3rd, 2009 at 07:37pm
LunacyFringe:
^^ Of course I am aware that abortion is always going to happen. Im saying that our focus should not be on fighting over whether or not abortion is legal or not, and we should put more focus on prevention.

LunacyFringe:
I would rather spend my time helping people not get pregnant at all, then keep fighting those who are already pregnant.

That doesn't make any sense. You're aware that unwanted pregnancy and abortion will always happen, yet you're still willing to say we should put all out energy into prevention? We already know that prevention of all unwanted pregnancies and abortions will never happen. So instead of investing all the time and energy into something that we know will never happen, I think it makes much more sense to put time and energy into improving abortion laws, making it legal everywhere and improving facilities because we know that abortion will always happen. And we know that complete prevention will never happen.

I understand you're point of view of "prevention is the best way", because theoretically it is. But we don't live in a world where prevention is completely possible. So we have to work on improving what we've got instead of working on something that will never be achieved. I think I just repeated myself a couple of times.
LunacyFringe:
Its a shame that people feel like its unrealistic to refrain from sex before marriage, because then much much less people would ever have to stress over these problems.
It's not a shame, particularly because not everyone wants to get married. I don't. I don't need to be ashamed of that, either.
LunacyFringe
Killjoy
LunacyFringe
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 82
December 3rd, 2009 at 08:25pm
^^ I never said that we can prevent ALL unwanted pregnancy. I said that we should work harder to make unwanted pregnancy less frequent.

Mindfuck:
But we don't live in a world where prevention is completely possible.


I disagree with that. We live in a world where it is almost completely possible to prevent pregnancy, but people choose not to do so. Besides rape, we all have the choice to have sex. People choose to have sex, knowing that they could potentially get pregnant, but then choose to have sex regardless. People keep saying "what if they dont have the resources to take care of a child?"...well, if you dont have the means to take care of a child, and putting it up for adoption is no longer seen as a good idea since their are already so many kids needing homes, then it really is simple: dont have sex until you do have the means to take care of a pregnancy that could occur.

Sex makes babies. We all know this. Even with protection it still happens. If you arent ready to take responsibility for your actions then dont have sex. Its all self-control. Dont act like we no longer have the ability to sustain, because we all do. Its not anywhere near impossible. This idea that we can do whatever we want and not have to take responsibility for what comes of our actions is ridiculous.
Lovesick Melody.
Bulletproof Heart
Lovesick Melody.
Age: 79
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Posts: 25760
December 3rd, 2009 at 09:05pm

So you're claiming that abstinence is the way to go?

Sex isn't just a baby-making procedure. It's also about expressing love in an intimate way.
Mindfuck
Always Born a Crime
Mindfuck
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Gender: Female
Posts: 5614
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:11pm
LunacyFringe:
I disagree with that. We live in a world where it is almost completely possible to prevent pregnancy, but people choose not to do so. Besides rape, we all have the choice to have sex. People choose to have sex, knowing that they could potentially get pregnant, but then choose to have sex regardless. People keep saying "what if they dont have the resources to take care of a child?"...well, if you dont have the means to take care of a child, and putting it up for adoption is no longer seen as a good idea since their are already so many kids needing homes, then it really is simple: dont have sex until you do have the means to take care of a pregnancy that could occur.

Sex makes babies. We all know this. Even with protection it still happens. If you arent ready to take responsibility for your actions then dont have sex. Its all self-control. Dont act like we no longer have the ability to sustain, because we all do. Its not anywhere near impossible. This idea that we can do whatever we want and not have to take responsibility for what comes of our actions is ridiculous.
Yes, people can choose to prevent pregnancy by either abstaining from sex or using birth control. But we don't live in a perfect world; we live in a world where women sometimes become pregnant even when on the pill, or after they've had the "jab", and where condoms can break. Not all people who have an unexpected pregnancy or who have an abortion had unprotected, irresponsible sex. Saying that people should abstain from sex until they're "ready for children" is completely ignoring human sexuality.

Women aren't baby making machines. We have the ability to carry a child and give birth to it, but for most women that isn't their only goal in life. Some women don't even want to have children - and some people will never be ready for children.

For humans, sex isn't all about pro creation. In fact, most of the time people have sex they do it for pleasure, not for pro creation.

I think it's really harmful to human sexuality to just see women as creatures that can become pregnant and should keep their legs closed until they're ready for pregnancy. As someone who doesn't even know if they want kids, I find the abstinence argument really insulting. We have things called sex drives. And funnily enough, the thought of having children is what's furthest from my mind when I'm exercising it.

A voice that's seemingly missing from this discussion is women in third world countries, where living conditions aren't as great as they are where you or I may live, and where women and men can't just pop down to the chemist to get some condoms, or go to their local GP and get the birth control pill. There are places in this world where people aren't educated on birth control or safe sex, and there are places where condoms aren't even available to all people (where I live, you can get free condoms if you know where to go - unfortunately, you can't say that happens everywhere in the world).

So how can we reach you're goal of prevention if there's people in this world who don't even know how to use a condom, or a birth control pill? Or even get hold of birth control?

I just cannot be as optimistic as you. I'm more realistic.
teen spirit.
Crash Queen
teen spirit.
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 30661
December 4th, 2009 at 08:24am
questionable content:
^ A significant number of pregnancies occur even when birth control is used, so I don't think it's fair to say that people choose to have unprotected sex because they may think they are protected when in reality they are not.

I stated that people know they're unprotected when they have unprotected sex?
I didn't say pregnancies don't happen if there's protection used. i said it's a more likely not to happen if protection is used.
questionable content
Always Born a Crime
questionable content
Age: 24
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Posts: 5604
December 4th, 2009 at 03:00pm
^ Not necessarily. Protection might be (unknowingly) improperly used, which would drastically increase the chance of pregnancy. But you're right, protection only reduces the chance of pregnancy.
teen spirit.
Crash Queen
teen spirit.
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 30661
December 5th, 2009 at 12:25am
^it might yeah, but in all fairness, as i stated above, lack of awareness is rarely an issue. more often than not people are well aware of the risks.

and LunacyFringe, how exactly would you propose we go about reducing unwanted pregnancies? we have awareness. you can't make people simply stop having sex. you can't stop them having sex before marriage, because marriage is not what everybody wants.
so how are you supposed to lower the numbers of unwanted pregnancies?

Jesse Lacey;
Awake and Unafraid
Jesse Lacey;
Age: 24
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Posts: 12077
December 6th, 2009 at 12:10pm
paul mcchristmas.:
^it might yeah, but in all fairness, as i stated above, lack of awareness is rarely an issue. more often than not people are well aware of the risks.

and LunacyFringe, how exactly would you propose we go about reducing unwanted pregnancies? we have awareness. you can't make people simply stop having sex. you can't stop them having sex before marriage, because marriage is not what everybody wants.
so how are you supposed to lower the numbers of unwanted pregnancies?

This isn't directed towards me, but my answer would be making contraceptives cheaper and more readily available. IE, birth control should always be covered by health insurance. I also don't see a problem with schools handing out condoms.
teen spirit.
Crash Queen
teen spirit.
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 30661
December 8th, 2009 at 10:01pm
good initiative "Bjork", I hadn't considered that myself. (:
while I still consider abortions being legalized a bigger concern, it would be a good idea to try and make condoms less expensive wherever it's possible to do so. and schools etc. handing out free condoms is also a great idea that i'm seeing being used increasingly.
thank fsm.
In The Murder Scene
thank fsm.
Age: 32
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December 9th, 2009 at 10:41am
Condoms are given out for free in at least 5 places in my town that I know of off the top of my head. They aren't fancy, but I think if you paid attention, you'd find that they're readily available in many places if you're willing to use the basic ones.
Jesse Lacey;
Awake and Unafraid
Jesse Lacey;
Age: 24
Gender: Female
Posts: 12077
December 9th, 2009 at 09:30pm
paul mcchristmas.:
good initiative "Bjork", I hadn't considered that myself. (:
while I still consider abortions being legalized a bigger concern, it would be a good idea to try and make condoms less expensive wherever it's possible to do so. and schools etc. handing out free condoms is also a great idea that i'm seeing being used increasingly.
thank you!
A lot of people are afraid that handing out condoms will make kids sexually active, but from what I've read the data all suggests quite the opposite.
teen spirit.
Crash Queen
teen spirit.
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 30661
December 11th, 2009 at 04:09pm
^ mmhmm, I agree.
underage sex is something that will always go on, regardless of whether protection is used or not, so it might as well be available to them.

Mindfuck
Always Born a Crime
Mindfuck
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December 12th, 2009 at 06:33am
Bjork:
thank you!
A lot of people are afraid that handing out condoms will make kids sexually active, but from what I've read the data all suggests quite the opposite.
Heh, it's reverse psychology.

If you teach kids abstinence, they're probably more likely to have underage sex because they're taught they're not allowed to and it will ruin your life and blah blah blah. It's naughty. They're not "supposed" to do it.

But give them free condoms, and suddenly the mystery behind sex disappears.

I think giving high school kids free condoms is a great idea. Because you're teaching them reality, not some crap about "you shouldn't have sex at this age!!"



I was discussing abortion with my grandmother of all people this afternoon, and she swears and declares she knew a young girl once who traveled here to Australia to have abortions 5 times.

On a different vein of discussion, what do people think about women having multiple abortions? Apparently they can hinder fertility, although I haven't researched that at all, just word of mouth. Do you think there should be a limit?
Mr.Tom
Jazz Hands
Mr.Tom
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 256
December 12th, 2009 at 12:15pm
Abortion is the act of manually taking life away from an unborn human.
It is also the act of saving two lives.
It's compleatly a personal choice.