Sexuality - Homosexual, Bi-Sexual, Bi-Curious, etc.

There is a thread here on Homosexual Rights, and I am starting this new one for the following reasons:

1. It is more than just about homosexual rights ~ this topic is intended to cover all aspects of human sexuality, including Bi-Sexual, Bi-Curious etc., and all of the many 'colours' that range from Heterosexual to Homosexual.

2. There is to be absolutely NO Religion, or religious basis for any post in this thread. Any posts which do so will be deleted or ignored.

There MUST be a way to discuss this, without religious arguments (and I use that term loosely) as the basis for ones opinion.

To start this Discussion, I would just like to share this Poem:

Different Drums & Different Drummers

If I do not want what you want
Please try not to tell me that my want is wrong.
Or if I believe other than you
At least pause before you correct my view.

Or if my emotion is less than yours
Or more, given the same circumstances,
Try not to ask me to feel more strongly or weakly.

Or yet if I act, or fail to act
In the manner of your design for action, let me be.
I do not, for the moment at least, ask you to understand me.
That will come only when you are willing to give up changing me into a copy of you.

I may be your spouse, your parent, your offspring, your friend, or your colleague.
If you will allow me any of my own wants, or emotions, or beliefs, or actions,
Then you open yourself
So that some day these ways of mine might not seem so wrong
And might finally appear to you as right -- for me.

To put up with me is the first step to understanding me.
Not that you embrace my ways as right for you
But that you are no longer irritated or disappointed with me
For my seeming waywardness.

And in understanding me
You might come to prize my differences from you
And, far from seeking to change me
Preserve and even nurture those differences.

From: "Please Understand Me"
by David Keirsey

Paolo Nutini:

I am itching to say this shouldn't be here, but I am really just perplexed. Congratulations on confusing authorities.

Um, why shouldn't it be here? The other thread on this topic (or similar) is filled with religious arguments for being anything other than pro-heterosexual, and I would like to be able to debate the issue without religion being brought into it. Which is the purpose of this thread. For this thread to be deleted would be almost be condoning religion as an argument against homosexuality etc. I would like to think that the authorities would have the wisdom to see that.

I think it's a good idea to have a thread like this. Even if people aren't going to be debating laws to do with homosexuality. Just even a discussion on their personal experiences to ask questions
I think it was a great idea Tikva, and I do think it will go well

Are we allowed to tell our first times?

Thank you for your positive comments ^^

And I completely agree. Whilst I am heterosexual, my younger brother is Gay, and my 16 yr old Son is Bi-Sexual, although he originally thought he was Gay. One thing that I would be interested in discussing with those who aren't heterosexual would be when you first realised that you were whatever sexuality you find yourself to be now?

Also, I as a woman have occasionally been attracted to other women, and the thought of a lesbian relationship has in fact crossed my mind, although not seriously. Is this something that you think most heterosexuals contemplate at some point in their lives, or just a few?

Let's get some positive, educational, and supportive discussion going, eh!!!

Oh, regardint the point above - yes, I do consider attacks motivated by homophobia (although I don't quite agree with that particular label) to be hate crimes........

I think most people do experience a degree of same-sex attraction throughout their lives -- the strength of the attraction is what's different.

While I disagree with the word "homophobia" (because the etymology is unclear -- literally, it means, "fear of the same," and I don't think the term was invented as a sly jibe against those who practice or feel homophobia [though if it was, that makes me like it much more]), I would definitely agree that violence against people who are homo- or bisexual to be a hate crime, and I'm backed up by the US government.

What I do disagree with is when people who are very young decide to "come out." Note that, by "very young," I mean, "too damn young to legally have sex." But then, I feel this way about the politicization of the underage, too -- I remember getting involved in a political debate with a friend when both of us were about 12, and I thought that was pretty silly, too. Basically, though, this disagreement arises more from my conviction that young people are being exploited by... Well, pretty much everyone. It seems that children and their supposed "protection" are the basis of every argument, at least in the American political system, and both sides end up getting wrong -- some are too controlling of what children should and shouldn't be able to do, some are too lax, but neither is getting it right and in the mean time, children get put in the middle of these moronic arguments that, really, are about something completely different -- religion, or money, or pleasure, perhaps, but certainly not about children.

But I digress wildly and at length.

But I would also like to say that I disagree with this insistence that people be "one or the other," so to speak. It is my firm conviction that sexuality is a highly fluid thing, as many others will attest. Take my own example: Like Tikva, I have also felt attracted towards other women and contemplated trying to form a relationship with the women to whom I have been attracted -- fairly seriously, I might add. For a long time, I was deeply in love with a girl who is still a good friend, though I don't feel that way for her anymore. Even now, though I'm in a relationship with a man, I still feel somewhat attracted to other women, though I should note that I have never acted physically on this attraction. What does this make me? It seems to me that all these labels -- "homosexual," "bisexual," "lesbian," "gay," even the notorious, "bisexual-until-graduation" -- are just that: Labels. Although labels can be useful (for example, in describing a type of music or literature), in this instance, I think they're more harmful than anything else, because it denies that people can have that fluidity of attraction, desire and love. And it irks me that many of the people who are "anti-labeling," as in, they dislike being characterized as "emo," "goth" or something else, will then proudly declare, "I'm a lesbian!" I find labels (of people) distressing, and it's at its worst when people insist on labeling themselves.

I don't know if that's helpful, but it is something I believe is one of the most harmful about this argument. Words have great power, and inflammatory language do nothing but create an argument that is less a constructive debate and more a demolition derby. I think one thing that would greatly aid understanding and compassion between different "groups" on these subjects would be the use of more neutral language -- to take another argument, replacing the terms pro-choice and pro-life with the more unwieldy but also more neutral "in favor of greater legalization of abortion" and "against greater legalization of abortion" would do a great deal to diffuse a certain amount of bad feeling. (Who really wants to be termed "anti-choice" or "anti-life"? Come on.) I think the same is certainly true of what "debate" there is surrounding sexuality. (Though how there can really be a debate about something virtually every living human experiences is a bit beyond me.)

But I've already gone on far too long. Please, forgive me for my long-windedness.

(If you read all that, you're a saint. Or have too much tie on your hands. )

^ With the young part, I don't think that matters. I mean, my bestie always knew he was gay. He was just never attracted to girls. Always been attracted to boys, therefore knew he was gay from a very young age. I think it depends on the person. Sure, there might be some immature people who are just like "Oh, I liked this guy. I must be gay!" But I think most are legit.

Tikva, I think everyone goes through some sort of attraction to the same sex at least at one point in their lives. It may not mean anything. It may not mean you are gay or bi, but I think everyone is attracted to someone at one point.
<3

amyy.vengeance:

^ With the young part, I don't think that matters. I mean, my bestie always knew he was gay. He was just never attracted to girls. Always been attracted to boys, therefore knew he was gay from a very young age. I think it depends on the person. Sure, there might be some immature people who are just like "Oh, I liked this guy. I must be gay!" But I think most are legit.

I'm not saying they're not legit; I'm saying I think by embracing these labels, people limit themselves to one particular stripe of sexuality. That was all I meant.

Radio Saturday:

I'm not saying they're not legit; I'm saying I think by embracing these labels, people limit themselves to one particular stripe of sexuality. That was all I meant.

Sorry, that's ok. It just sounded like you were saying that you didn't think it was ok.
Sorry about that. I misunderstood

I think that a lot people are sort of homophobic, even when they don't think they are. I mean my mom told my sister that she was wearing a lesbian bra, in order to stop her wearing it, but my mom isn't really what you would call homophobic, she just used it as a phrase. I myself am still investigating shall we say, and I have noticed that a lot of people seem to be more lenient to gay men, rather than lesbians. I mean a man is camp, but a woman is butch. I know what I'd rather be called.

I think that it is fine who you sleep with, or have a relationship with, as long as you know what you are in for, so no one gets hurt. I don't think it is anyones business what a persons sexuality is, because it doesn't hurt anyone. People say sort 'what if he hits on me?' well, what if a woman hit on you? it is any different? I don't think it is. I think people are people, and it doesn't matter who you love.

mindfuck.:

As a society, I think we focus way too much on the sexuality of a person. I know that sexuality is a fundamental part of who you are, but I don't think it should define you as a whole person.

This is definitely true. I always admire popular figures who don't allow their sexuality to define who they are or what they do. Chuck Palahniuk is a good example of this. (Though the poor bastard kind of shot himself in the foot about it.)

And ChipmunkOnKetamine, I've also noticed the bias against lesbianism in popular culture. I mean, there's a lot of it in porn, but elsewhere, not as much. I think it's because lesbian women as a group don't have the reputation for being as fashionable or "fun" as gay men. Obviously, this is often untrue, but it's the stereotype that remains. Also, although much of pop culture is superficially dominated by men, women are primary consumers, and women as a group feel less threatened by a gay man -- who is not likely to hit on them/pressure them for sex -- as women would feel by a lesbian woman. (Not that all lesbians hit on all women -- that's not what I'm saying -- but the sexual tension isn't there with gay men, which women as a group find non-threatening.) So I think that's at least part of the bias against lesbianism.

But I'm just spouting off here.

Wow, some excellent points have been made since my last visit, and it is great to see such intelligent and accepting discussion going on around this issue. Although why it even SHOULD be an issue is beyond me.

Radio Saturday, I agree with pretty much everything you said, and yes, I did read it all, and not because I have too much time on my hands, but because your post was interesting to read. I wholeheartedly agree about the fluidity part, and this is something that may occur throughout ones life. For all I know, in a few years time, I might quite happily be in a relationship with a woman, and then a few more years down the track, with a man again.

And those damn labels!!! Ugh!!!!!! They really piss me off (apologies for the language) because they box a person in, and by doing so, may prevent the freedom of the individual to just be who they are.

Oddly enough, I have a battle on my hands with my 14 yr old and 13 yr old twins with the whole "MCR is Emo" thing. It isn't me using the label ~ it is my children! But then I think they are just picking up that popular usage from their friends and schoolmates, without actually thinking about what they mean. Believe me, I have done my best to help them understand about not labelling anyone. Hopefully, the fact that I am a 44 yr old Grandmother who most definitely would not fit the typical 'label' of being Emo might help them with that.

For me, labels, sexuality, jobs, education, etc. should not define who we are as human beings. We are all so unique, individual, and beautiful in our own way, and I guess if I have to be defined, I would rather it be by how I treat others.

Just so you know, homosexuality endangers the existence of the human race

Complication:

Just so you know, homosexuality endangers the existence of the human race

I.... I.. cannot even comprehend how completely illogical that statement is.
Homosexuality has been around for time immemorial. And guess what? The human race is still going strong.

yes Complication could you please explain that. How exactly does it endanger the existence of the human race? it isn't going to kill you, it isn't contagious, it isn't an illness. Being gay is not going to kill you. So how is it endangering the human race? taking note that there is to be no religion on this thread, and there are enough straight people to make enough babies to keep the human race going.

What endangers the human race it the disappearance of all the bees, the temperature rises, and the number of wars. Not the fact that some people are gay.

Note my phrasing: COULD

If too many people decided, "Hey, everyone else is doing it... I'm gay!" We could have a population crisis on our hands. COULD.